Active Speakers for Helix/Kemper/Axefx ETC .........WHICH ????

Beexter

I'm pleased with the DXR10 after about 3 weeks of ownership with an AX8 running through it. What the DXR does well is to transparently amplify what you feed into it.
If you don't like what's coming out, the problem is most likely to be what you're putting into it. 
As has been said by others,  the whole modelling / profiling approach takes a little bit of time to get the sound you want / expect and you are often tweaking parameters that you wouldn't in the real world. A great example is the hi and lo cuts on the cabs in the AX8 (I assume the other modelers have something similar). The first time I played it at band rehearsal,  it sounded way too fizzy, thin and brittle. Turned out that the default hi cut and low cut settings were way too wide. I've set the low cut to around 80hz and the hi cut between 7 - 8000 and it has made a huge difference and I'll continue to fine tune over time. 
In real world,  changing the tone of my speaker cab would need a speaker swap. 

I think it really is a case of quality in = quality out. It's just the same with my home hi-fi speakers. Playing Pink Floyd through them sounds glorious. Stick some Justin Bieber through them and it sounds shite no matter what I do. That's not the fault of the speakers... 

Wazmeister

@Beexter - great post mate and bang on...

The problem is for me, amd many of us I guess, is that I dont know (yet) fully what tweaks need to be made, and what each knob actually does.

Its trial ans error and a lot of it. I guess most of us are 'plug and play', and are trained to want 'instant' results. As a result, we may abandon the journey as the learning curve is steep.

Im hanging on in there, cos I know that the sounds are in there; then once realised, the whole thing will open up !!

Jonathanthomas83

Wazmeister said:

@Beexter - great post mate and bang on...

The problem is for me, amd many of us I guess, is that I dont know (yet) fully what tweaks need to be made, and what each knob actually does.

Its trial ans error and a lot of it. I guess most of us are 'plug and play', and are trained to want 'instant' results. As a result, we may abandon the journey as the learning curve is steep.

Im hanging on in there, cos I know that the sounds are in there; then once realised, the whole thing will open up !!

I have no experience with the Kemper but this is true for my experience with the Fractal and it was before I went digital and started using IRs instead of physical cabinets, that was a testing time too. Hang in there, mate, you'll get there.

Roland

Wazmeister said:

The problem is for me, amd many of us I guess, is that I dont know (yet) fully what tweaks need to be made, and what each knob actually does.

That's actually a good position to be in. When you think you know then there's a tendency to repeat what you did before, rather than use your ears. I've been using Fractal for nine years, and am still learning. The good thing is that I can learn without buying new amps and fx every time.

Dominic

The one annoying thing about modelling is that there is often substantial re-tweaking to be done when changing guitars on the fly ie put down Les Paul and put on Strat ..........all are very sensitive to guitar input - of course so are Amps and pedals but they are a quicker fix 
Yes you can build pre-sets for each but it starts getting a bit complicated for a simpleton like me

dindude

I read these threads with genuine interest as a Luddite amp and pedals devotee, but I gotta be honest, it just seems like a different kinda rabbit hole

Jonathanthomas83

Dominic said:

The one annoying thing about modelling is that there is often substantial re-tweaking to be done when changing guitars on the fly ie put down Les Paul and put on Strat ..........all are very sensitive to guitar input - of course so are Amps and pedals but they are a quicker fix 
Yes you can build pre-sets for each but it starts getting a bit complicated for a simpleton like me

I actually find that modelling is much more forgiving of different guitars, not because it treats them all equally and they all then sound the same, far from it, but simply because you've got the tools at hand to make the jump to a different guitar so much easier than what you would with regular gear. I'd need to tweak the EQ on my amp if I plugged in my strat after playing with a Les Paul and I'd never quite get the LP to sound clean enough...however, with the Axe FX, the presets allow quick transitions not possible with regular gear.

I find that I make one master preset, then copy it to another slot and tweak it...so that it doesn't have to be hard work rebuilding every time. But I take your point, it's a whole different thing to get used to.

dindude said:

I read these threads with genuine interest as a Luddite amp and pedals devotee, but I gotta be honest, it just seems like a different kinda rabbit hole

If you allow it to be, yes. Some spend more time tweaking than they do playing. I've found that the ratio between the two has significantly increased in favour of playing. The GAS rabbit hole has been filled too...I've had three solid weeks sober now...that's unheard of, for me! :-)

imalrightjack

I've decided to stick with a real cab for now. The Yamaha DXR-10 was fine but the Zilla needed less tweaking​. I'll likely try again another time but I will also wait until I can get one that looks like a cab (that is affordable and well reviewed).

Wazmeister

imalrightjack said:

I've decided to stick with a real cab for now. The Yamaha DXR-10 was fine but the Zilla needed less tweaking​. I'll likely try again another time but I will also wait until I can get one that looks like a cab (that is affordable and well reviewed).

You know mate, I completely understand this thinking.

My Zilla sounds great with the Kemper, BUT I do love the sound that comes out of that DXR... it is a glorious sounding speaker, and defiantly seems to fill the room with 3D sound.

Jonathanthomas83

I can understand it, to an extent. There's so much flexibility with an FRFR though. The problem is that it's not an exact science and one solution (set of parameters) isn't a fix for everyone, so as much as I'd love to help you get there with the DXR, it's literally a matter of trial and error and unfortunately, tweaking. For the first part anyway, like I've said before, once it's done, it's done.

imalrightjack

@Jonathanthomas83 and @Wazmeister ;

I will return to FRFR. I think partly I really couldn't get away with the wedge element. And I'm not ready for the time investment. I've enough getting used to it, generally. Once I feel I've understood the Kemper better, then I'll re-plunge. 

Jonathanthomas83

Good man, I can't fault that thinking.

imalrightjack

Jonathanthomas83 said:

Good man, I can't fault that thinking.

Thank you, @Jonathanthomas83 - although I am tempted by this, now they're in stock (I didn't see the point in buying the powered version):

http://uk.matrixamplification.com/speakers/fr12p.html

I'd be very tempted to leave my cab at rehearsal and have this at home to really try and get to grips with it.  I'm not convinced that 'tone woods' will help with an FRFR though (in fact, does this not contradict its purpose?).

Jonathanthomas83

No, I think you're right there. The whole point is that the tone sounds like the cab you've captured on the IR.

YMMV, but I wasn't impressed with the powered FR12. Got my fingers crossed for you.

imalrightjack

Jonathanthomas83 said:

No, I think you're right there. The whole point is that the tone sounds like the cab you've captured on the IR.

YMMV, but I wasn't impressed with the powered FR12. Got my fingers crossed for you.

@Jonathanthomas83 - I think that sounds like just the warning I needed to make me cool my jets.  If you have the DXR-10 and came to this conclusion, I think my wait should continue.

Wazmeister

Mate, I've been too-ing and fro-ing between my real amps and the Kemper and FX8 this week... 

Today Ive had a Timeline into the FX8 into (left) Carr Rambler and (right) the DXR10... it is quite simply beautiful sound and the DXR10 is somehow room filling, very 3 D.

imalrightjack

@Wazmeister are you toying with getting rid of the 'real' amps?

I discovered a Diesel VH4 profile on the Rig Exchange which I've had a lot of fun with.  Excellent for some full on metal \m/

Dominic

Anybody tried the Mission Gemini 2 stereo frfr powered cab ?
It has a great control for graduating the sound from full on flat response to imitation of a guitar cab - about a quarter of the way dialled back it takes the bright metallic sound away from the models without having to EQ it out and sounds very genuine

Wazmeister

imalrightjack said:

@Wazmeister are you toying with getting rid of the 'real' amps?

I discovered a Diesel VH4 profile on the Rig Exchange which I've had a lot of fun with.  Excellent for some full on metal \m/

I could do you know, but the two I have are very special... The Rambler and the Redplate RP50R.

I'm close to getting closer (if that makes sense) and there may be a few more pedal sales yet ! The FX8 into the Kemper, is a delight and of course opens up incredible stereo opportunities.

The DXR will be at the centre of it all though

Jonathanthomas83

@Dominic I'd love to try one, expensive though aren't they. Plus I do prefer the stereo spread to be a bit wider with two separate speakers.

@wazmeister awesome news mate! Considering a second Yam?