Marshall-in-a-box?

ICBM · October 2016

Maynehead said:

P.s. the Marshall Guv'nor mk1 sounds good but I'm very paranoid about tone suck as it's not true bypass.

It's easy to mod a MkI Guv'nor for true bypass - the switch is one of the notorious weak points on them so replacing it is a good idea anyway. You need to alter the wiring slightly as well, but the jacks are also crap so replacing the in and out ones at the same time with non-PCB-mount ones would be a further upgrade. (You can leave the DC jack supported by the loop jack.)

The Mk2 is much harder because the switch is PCB-mounted.

Sassafras · October 2016

I think you're more likely to get tone suck with a whole bunch of true bypass pedals than well buffered ones.
I just don't get the buffered pedal paranoia.

ICBM · October 2016

Sassafras said:

I think you're more likely to get tone suck with a whole bunch of true bypass pedals than well buffered ones.
I just don't get the buffered pedal paranoia.

That's true.

The Guv'nors aren't buffered though - they're 'half-arsed bypass' (©Sporky) where only the output is switched. The input remains connected to the pedal circuit at all times, and the input impedance - although high - is a load on the signal path. You can often tell the difference even with one in the circuit, let alone several - the loads are actually in parallel when the pedals are off so they can really add up.

Of course if you have a good buffer at the start it doesn't matter - although some really extreme ones can still cause trouble with less-than-perfect buffers.

The point with the MkI Guv'nor is that the stock switch is rubbish and often fails, and it's possible to fit a 3PDT - which are actually slightly better, even though not great either - with no difficulty, so you may as well true-bypass it at the same time.

Sassafras · October 2016

johnhe said:

Laurie said:

Sassafras said:

I wouldn't buy anything from JHS on principle.
I draw the line at funding, homophobic, Islamophobic, hate filled religious nutters.
And his business ethics aren't dissimilar to Mr Vertex's.

I hear ya. Wise call;)

The guy's a religious nutjob who rips off generic schematics, tweaks 'em a tad and then palms them off as being his own designs. You couldn't pay me to lob a JHS piece of tripe anywhere near my rig. Complete and utter shite!!

Sorry, but that's total bollocks. I know all of the stories about his plagiarism, but I'm not sure that most of his pedals at less plagiarised than the ones they're supposed to have copied. JHS seem to be very open about which pedals their stuff is based on and inspired by (like the original Bluesbreaker or governor etc).

Also, as far as business ethics go, I've been able to avail of their lifetime warranty for a new footswitch in a pedal which was well outside warranty. So I've personally found their after sales support to be exemplary.

if there are cases where Josh's Christianity crosses into "religious nut job" territory, then please tell us about them factually. Otherwise, your anti religious bias sounds just as bigoted as anything I've seen from any fanatic Christians or any other religion. Just disguised as secularism.

i thought that forums such as this were suppose to be above this kind of thing, so I'm surprised to see posts like yours.

Just to be clear - I've investigated the anti JHS thing a little and satisfied myself that they had not done anything that I was unhappy with. I am genuinely interested to know if they have demonstrated anti Islam or unfairly-anti-anything-else statements.

Edit: if you're interested, I found this post quite informative on the subject of JHS and their business practices. I don't know the writer at all, but the post seems reasonably objectively written to me.

https://realworldworship.org/2014/02/25/the-people-vs-jhs-pedals/

I'm very happy for you that you've had such great customer service from JHS.

Where does it say forums such as this shouldn't discuss people's opinions on various manufacturers?
I don't particularly care if he's cloned pedals. I'm more concerned with his bigotry.
Do more research. There's plenty of info on his hateful religious fanaticism.

juansolo · October 2016

For what it's worth (and keeping his religious beliefs out of this). He was a DIYer who used to stick Madbean's circuits, verbatim, PCB and all, into boxes and sell them as his own work. Madbean's circuits were meant for DIY, not for commercial use. At the time, he was very clear about that. He was deliberately deceptive about all these things. There are many pictures of early pedals where they are very clearly Madbean designed layouts.

Where you can't copyright circuits, you absolutely can copyright layouts and using someone else's without permission is basically against the law. But when you do it to DIYers, they don't exactly have the funds to challenge that so are easy game for con men like him.

Laurie · October 2016

johnhe said:

Laurie said:

Sassafras said:

I wouldn't buy anything from JHS on principle.
I draw the line at funding, homophobic, Islamophobic, hate filled religious nutters.
And his business ethics aren't dissimilar to Mr Vertex's.

I hear ya. Wise call;)

The guy's a religious nutjob who rips off generic schematics, tweaks 'em a tad and then palms them off as being his own designs. You couldn't pay me to lob a JHS piece of tripe anywhere near my rig. Complete and utter shite!!

Sorry, but that's total bollocks. I know all of the stories about his plagiarism, but I'm not sure that most of his pedals at less plagiarised than the ones they're supposed to have copied. JHS seem to be very open about which pedals their stuff is based on and inspired by (like the original Bluesbreaker or governor etc).

Also, as far as business ethics go, I've been able to avail of their lifetime warranty for a new footswitch in a pedal which was well outside warranty. So I've personally found their after sales support to be exemplary.

if there are cases where Josh's Christianity crosses into "religious nut job" territory, then please tell us about them factually. Otherwise, your anti religious bias sounds just as bigoted as anything I've seen from any fanatic Christians or any other religion. Just disguised as secularism.

i thought that forums such as this were suppose to be above this kind of thing, so I'm surprised to see posts like yours.

Just to be clear - I've investigated the anti JHS thing a little and satisfied myself that they had not done anything that I was unhappy with. I am genuinely interested to know if they have demonstrated anti Islam or unfairly-anti-anything-else statements.

Edit: if you're interested, I found this post quite informative on the subject of JHS and their business practices. I don't know the writer at all, but the post seems reasonably objectively written to me.

https://realworldworship.org/2014/02/25/the-people-vs-jhs-pedals/

Firstly man.. sorry. The last thing I wanna do is spread negativity, or misinformation. Live and let live, and all that. And apologies if I came across as being anti-religious/bigoted, etc. As long as you're not hurtin' anyone, whatever floats your boat..

It was this thread which really instilled a/an healthy/unhealthy disdain for all things JHS.

Link: https://www.reddit.com/r/guitarpedals/comments/410a3q/probably_late_to_the_party_but_why_all_the_jhs/

Like I say, I'm not interested in spreading unwarranted negativity, etc. And, if I'm wrong I'll be the first to raise my hands and say I was wrong. Just going off all the stuff I've read online.

Peace...

chugington · October 2016

The Barber Direct Drive I have in the Classifieds (now £70) is definitely in Marshall territory - JTM onwards. The Weehbo JTM drive I thought was fantastic. The Marvel Drive is the best Marshall pedal I have tried so far.

Jonathanthomas83 · October 2016

I fully agree with @chugington the Marvel Drive is hands down phenomenal! Making me want another now!

Dave_Mc · October 2016

juansolo said:

For what it's worth (and keeping his religious beliefs out of this). He was a DIYer who used to stick Madbean's circuits, verbatim, PCB and all, into boxes and sell them as his own work. Madbean's circuits were meant for DIY, not for commercial use. At the time, he was very clear about that. He was deliberately deceptive about all these things. There are many pictures of early pedals where they are very clearly Madbean designed layouts.

Where you can't copyright circuits, you absolutely can copyright layouts and using someone else's without permission is basically against the law. But when you do it to DIYers, they don't exactly have the funds to challenge that so are easy game for con men like him.

Agreed.

And also I don't see anywhere on the angry charlie page where it mentions it's basically a crunch box (or at least the older versions... the newer ones has a 3-band EQ which would make a cynic wonder if it's just gone back to being a guvnor clone

Which would have so much irony there that my ironometer might explode... ).

So yeah. @johnhe - before throwing out accusations of "total bollocks", maybe check your own post for "total bollocks".

johnhe · October 2016

It was the religious stance that I was objecting to. I fully understand people's reservations about JHS history in using copied circuits. For what it's worth, I'm pretty certain that the Crunchbox is based on/copied from the Governor circuit. I know that JHS are very open than the AC is based on that circuit, and have never ( that I'm aware of) made any bones about it.

just to be clear - my intention was ABSOLUTLEY NOT to defend the business practices of JHS. But I deeply object to the anti Christian sentiment in the other post. I'm quite happy to accept that JHS are islamophobic or homophobic, but in order to accept that, I'd like to see more proof before writing them off in that way.

monquixote · October 2016

johnhe said:

It was the religious stance that I was objecting to. I fully understand people's reservations about JHS history in using copied circuits. For what it's worth, I'm pretty certain that the Crunch
box is copied from the Governor circuit. I know that JHS are very open than the AC is based on that circuit, and have never ( that I'm aware of) made any bones about it.

just to be clear - my intention was ABSOLUTLEY NOT to defend the business practices of JHS. But I deeply object to the anti Christian sentiment in the other post. I'm quite happy to accept that JHS are islamophobic or homophobic, but in order to accept that, I'd like to see more proof before writing them off in that way.

It's not that it's cloned off the Guvnor it's cloned off the MI Audio Crunchbox (which is based on a Guvnor) who are a smaller manufacturer who sell the same pedal, but better made and for less money. When MI updated their pedal to have an extra presence control so did JHS, when MI release the Super Crunchbox with a clipping switch JHS release the AT pedal with a clipping switch.

It's just so blatant it takes the piss.

johnhe · October 2016

Ok. I apologise for what I've written, and for getting in folks faces about their posts. I was having a very bad day, but that doesn't excuse it.

I totally accept that many people have a real problem with JHS business practices. I personally have convinced myself that I do not have a problem buying JHS products, but there is always the chance that I'm naive/wrong and they should actually be avoided.

My first post in this thread should have read something like "I accept that people dislike JHS business practices, but I'd really appreciate if religion could be kept out of this forum".

Again, I apologise for the aggressive nature of my posts. I thank some of the other posters for their graceful responses and for putting up with me. I value this community a lot, and would like to get along peacefully with each and every one of you.

professorben · October 2016

@johnhe for what's it's worth, I don't really care about anyone cloning or copying circuits, you make it, you sell it, someone's gonna copy it, I try my best not to fund those guys.
HOWEVER, I view anyone with a religious leaning very suspiciously indeed, In this world some people have views that don't align with my own, that's cool, to each his own, but when they get organised, start meeting in large groups, start attempting to influence people, business and politics, that's when I get nervous.

Sassafras · October 2016

johnhe said:

It was the religious stance that I was objecting to. I fully understand people's reservations about JHS history in using copied circuits. For what it's worth, I'm pretty certain that the Crunchbox is based on/copied from the Governor circuit. I know that JHS are very open than the AC is based on that circuit, and have never ( that I'm aware of) made any bones about it.

just to be clear - my intention was ABSOLUTLEY NOT to defend the business practices of JHS. But I deeply object to the anti Christian sentiment in the other post. I'm quite happy to accept that JHS are islamophobic or homophobic, but in order to accept that, I'd like to see more proof before writing them off in that way.

Google 'International House of Prayer'
Delusional, manipulative psychotic nutters who target the young and credulous.
They, directly or indirectly, are not getting a penny of my money.

johnhe · October 2016

I know absolutely nothing about House of Prayer, but I will look into it. But I think that writing off all Christians (or Muslims or Hindus) as suspicious or untrustworthy sounds a bit discriminatory to me.

To be honest, as a Chistian myself, I suppose that people would think that I would relish the chance to debate my views and explain them to folks. But honestly, I'm uncomfortable that religion becomes a point of discussion on a gear forum, unless it is in the Off Topic section or whatever.

Wazmeister · October 2016

@johnhe - a couple of great earlier posts mate. Spot on.

Maynehead · October 2016

I guess there might have been a misunderstanding of the term "religious nutjob".

When I read that I took it to mean that he was someone who was an extreme religious fanatic, but it could also have been interpreted to mean that anyone who is religious is a nutjob.

I'm sure the former meaning is the one intended by the original post.

By the way, my SL Drive arrived in the post this morning, can't wait to check it out

Dave_Mc · October 2016

johnhe said:

It was the religious stance that I was objecting to. I fully understand people's reservations about JHS history in using copied circuits. For what it's worth, I'm pretty certain that the Crunchbox is based on/copied from the Governor circuit. I know that JHS are very open than the AC is based on that circuit, and have never ( that I'm aware of) made any bones about it.

just to be clear - my intention was ABSOLUTLEY NOT to defend the business practices of JHS. But I deeply object to the anti Christian sentiment in the other post. I'm quite happy to accept that JHS are islamophobic or homophobic, but in order to accept that, I'd like to see more proof before writing them off in that way.

To be fair, in the exact paragraph where you said, "absolute bollocks" (which was your first paragraph, and which was the one I was referring to) there was nothing about the anti-Christian stuff. Here's your paragraph:

johnhe said:

Sorry, but that's total bollocks. I know all of the stories about his plagiarism, but I'm not sure that most of his pedals at less plagiarised than the ones they're supposed to have copied. JHS seem to be very open about which pedals their stuff is based on and inspired by (like the original Bluesbreaker or governor etc).

So yeah. That "absolute bollocks" doesn't appear to apply to any of that stuff. I don't much care for anti-Christian (or anti-anyone) rhetoric either, but (a) whether it's actually anti-Christian or legitimate criticism is kind of open to debate and (b) he wasn't necessarily being anti-all-Christians, more anti-JHS (and other chancers like him who prey (pun totally intended) on the P&W market).

And yes, absolutely, the crunch box isn't completely unique- but it's a tweaked guvnor rather than a straight clone
(and also, and this is important, the original guvnor has been discontinued for some time). The angry charlie, at least the initial incarnation, was pretty much a crunchbox verbatim, at least as far as i'm aware. And as far as I'm aware, JHS didn't exactly flag this up on its website (and still doesn't).

monquixote said:

johnhe said:

It was the religious stance that I was objecting to. I fully understand people's reservations about JHS history in using copied circuits. For what it's worth, I'm pretty certain that the Crunch
box is copied from the Governor circuit. I know that JHS are very open than the AC is based on that circuit, and have never ( that I'm aware of) made any bones about it.

just to be clear - my intention was ABSOLUTLEY NOT to defend the business practices of JHS. But I deeply object to the anti Christian sentiment in the other post. I'm quite happy to accept that JHS are islamophobic or homophobic, but in order to accept that, I'd like to see more proof before writing them off in that way.

It's not that it's cloned off the Guvnor it's cloned off the MI Audio Crunchbox (which is based on a Guvnor) who are a smaller manufacturer who sell the same pedal, but better made and for less money. When MI updated their pedal to have an extra presence control so did JHS, when MI release the Super Crunchbox with a clipping switch JHS release the AT pedal with a clipping switch.

It's just so blatant it takes the piss.

Bingo.

I actually forgot about the andy timmons pedal (and it annoys me because i'm a big AT fan), but that's even worse than I was thinking. Downright shameless.

johnhe said:

Ok. I apologise for what I've written, and for getting in folks faces about their posts. I was having a very bad day, but that doesn't excuse it.

I totally accept that many people have a real problem with JHS business practices. I personally have convinced myself that I do not have a problem buying JHS products, but there is always the chance that I'm naive/wrong and they should actually be avoided.

My first post in this thread should have read something like "I accept that people dislike JHS business practices, but I'd really appreciate if religion could be kept out of this forum".

Again, I apologise for the aggressive nature of my posts. I thank some of the other posters for their graceful responses and for putting up with me. I value this community a lot, and would like to get along peacefully with each and every one of you.

Argh I saw this after I wrote the first bit. No worries, and yeah it's the business practices I don't like. I also don't like that he (and others) seem to target a particular market, some members of which seem to defend him fanatically- in that respect I think bringing up the religious thing is ok. Not that religion is the problem, but that some people are using religion to rip others off, and some of those being ripped off seem to think the people pointing this out are the bad guys.

All of the above, as usual when I post anything which is possibly contentious, in my opinion, to the best of my knowledge, as far as I'm aware, etc. etc. etc.

Sassafras · October 2016

johnhe said:

I know absolutely nothing about House of Prayer, but I will look into it. But I think that writing off all Christians (or Muslims or Hindus) as suspicious or untrustworthy sounds a bit discriminatory to me.

To be honest, as a Chistian myself, I suppose that people would think that I would relish the chance to debate my views and explain them to folks. But honestly, I'm uncomfortable that religion becomes a point of discussion on a gear forum, unless it is in the Off Topic section or whatever.

I hope you don't think I'm "writing off" all people of faith. I'm not. I'm very tolerant of people's different beliefs even if I don't agree with them.
I'm less tolerant of intolerant religious nutters who influence people in potentially dangerous ways.

johnhe · October 2016

HOWEVER, I view anyone with a religious leaning very suspiciously indeed

This is the kind of direction of some of the comments, which I felt was starting to become discriminatory, and seems to have nothing to do with music.

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