New Penalties for Drivers

Spider · August 2013

New Penalties for Drivers, including on-the-spot fines for tailgating and lane-hogging, take effect from tomorrow. Also from tomorrow, various fines, for which drivers do not have their licence endorsed, rise from £30 to £50. These include such offences as not having an easily-seen car tax disc and failing to give way at a junction.

The fine for not wearing a seatbelt goes up from £60 to £100, while the driving-without-insurance fine rises from £200 to £300.

For me, anyone not having insurance should be fined at least 3 times what their premium would be.

blindlemonade · August 2013

But who's going to enforce them? Anyone seen any traffic police recently?

I reckon it's only a matter of time before the Highways Agency are empowered to hand out fines...

Phil_aka_Pip · August 2013

Fining people 3 x their insurance premium is an excellent way of making sure they'll never buy any more insurance

Spider · August 2013

Phil_aka_Pip said:

Fining people 3 x their insurance premium is an excellent way of making sure they'll never buy any more insurance

Then they should be banned off the road. If the fine is a lot less than their premium they may think the risk is worth it.

Bellycaster · August 2013

Impossible to Police, that should be obvious to anyone with an ounce of sense. As usual it will just be a load of opportunistic "nicks" in the hope that the poor sod wont go to court to contest it.

Revenue collection racket!

If I ever have 5 hours spare I'll argue the toss with anyone about it.

:x

Phil_aka_Pip · August 2013

Spider said:

Phil_aka_Pip said:

Fining people 3 x their insurance premium is an excellent way of making sure they'll never buy any more insurance

Then they should be banned off the road. If the fine is a lot less than their premium they may think the risk is worth it.

True if the fine is cheaper than the insurance they would rather risk getting stopped. A ban wont stop such people though. As it is now, if you are caught with no insurance your vehicle is impounded there & then. They crush it if after 28 days you are not legal to collect it and drive it away.

EricTheWeary · August 2013

blindlemonade said:

But who's going to enforce them? Anyone seen any traffic police recently?

There is a very long answer to this but the short one is depends where you are.In urban areas now they are pretty non existent.

Sporky · August 2013

How awful. You can be fined for being a crap driver!

I predict outrage from people who aren't fit to be on the roads.

littlegreenman · August 2013

Sporky said:

How awful. You can be fined for being a crap driver!

I predict outrage from people who aren't fit to be on the roads.

I suspect you may be right, as they are with wearing seatbelts, using mobile phones, "casual" drink-driving, etc

chillidoggy · August 2013

At the risk of sounding like Uncle Albert, years ago there were any number of traffic cops around. Now, you simply don't see so many, well not around these parts. So how the hell they hope to enforce any new laws is beyond me. I expect that like me, you see people using mobile phones at the wheel all the time, knowing that the chances of getting caught are pretty much nil.

Emp_Fab · August 2013

Well, I've been testing this theory, and so far Chilli appears to be correct. I've managed to do 90 in the fast lane whilst talking on the mobile, eating a burger and playing a banjo, and not a whiff of plod action. Today I'm upping the ante... I'm on the vodka for breakfast and I'm going to wear my "I hate the pigs" T-shirt.

However, they are very hot when it comes to sitting in a hidden van in a layby on the most stupidly restrictive speed-limited roads in the area and pressing a button on a camera that automatically takes money from people.

I got done last week for doing 41 in a 30, in a non-residential area at the end of a very long downhill 60mph limit straight. Meanwhile, they are nowhere to be seen near the local school where catching people speeding would be beneficial, because they won't generate as much money. I'm not moaning about being done - I broke the limit, I have to pay the penalty etc, but I am moaning about the obvious motivation behind the siting of the camera vans. Why put a van on the residential A road into town where people are trying to cross when you can park up on the motorway bridge and be fed an endless stream of people doing 90 on a fast moving three lane motorway with armco barriers. ? Road safety my arse.

blindlemonade · August 2013

Some of the new "offences" seem to be rather arbitrary:

Pushing into an orderly traffic queue - Does that include motorcycles filtering to the front at the lights, or lane-splitting on a stationary motorway?

Being in the wrong lane at a roundabout - Well, I use a map book, not a SatNav. Sometimes the lane markings aren't clear, until you get on top of them (eg A3/M25 roundabout). So rather than switch lanes, will I have to do a complete loop of the roundabout to get to my exit?

juansolo · August 2013

Emp_Fab said:

Well, I've been testing this theory, and so far Chilli appears to be correct. I've managed to do 90 in the fast lane whilst talking on the mobile, eating a burger and playing a banjo, and not a whiff of plod action. Today I'm upping the ante... I'm on the vodka for breakfast and I'm going to wear my "I hate the pigs" T-shirt.

However, they are very hot when it comes to sitting in a hidden van in a layby on the most stupidly restrictive speed-limited roads in the area and pressing a button on a camera that automatically takes money from people.

I got done last week for doing 41 in a 30, in a non-residential area at the end of a very long downhill 60mph limit straight. Meanwhile, they are nowhere to be seen near the local school where catching people speeding would be beneficial, because they won't generate as much money. I'm not moaning about being done - I broke the limit, I have to pay the penalty etc, but I am moaning about the obvious motivation behind the siting of the camera vans. Why put a van on the residential A road into town where people are trying to cross when you can park up on the motorway bridge and be fed an endless stream of people doing 90 on a fast moving three lane motorway with armco barriers. ? Road safety my arse.

This ^ entirely. Maybe people would have more respect for traffic laws if they were policed in such a way that wasn't just an obvious attempt to get as much cash from the motorist as possible. Maybe it's because we're not as bad a drivers as we're made to believe and there aren't enough people driving like dicks where it's actually dangerous to do so?

Speed doesn't kill. Inappropriate speed kills. I drive indecently fast quite regularly on race tracks and I've not died or killed anyone. However if I did that in a built up area I'd expect to be locked up. Getting done for doing it on a motorway, the purpose of which was to get you from A-B as fast and efficiently as possible, or on a B road in the middle of nowhere sends completely the wrong message.

Indeed I was on an autobahn recently where people were doing in excess of 130mph. Quite happily along with people pootling at 80-90mph and wagons doing 60. No one died that I could see. There was no righteous indignation. Just people getting to where they were going. Interestingly where the Germans do have speed limits, people seem to stick to them quite happily. Maybe if you don't treat the people like children, they're less likely to be disobedient when it actually matters. But again, this only makes any sense if road safety is actually your goal...

ICBM · August 2013

I also don't object to better policing and stopping dangerous drivers, but I do strongly object to the idea of on-the-spot fines at the whim of a policeman. That's not a proper due legal process, it's a way of generating cash as cheaply as possible and is as open to corruption as it is in the sort of countries where it's the standard practice.

If everyone refuses to pay the fines and makes them take every alleged offence to court the system will fall apart soon enough.

juansolo · August 2013

To be fair. Though I've met the odd copper who has been a proper arsehole, most of them are decent and if you're not taking the piss or doing something obviously against the law, then they're sensible about it. I've had a few well deserved bollockings over my driving life and they worked.

Likewise I've had tickets that I absolutely deserved for driving like a dick where I shouldn't have been. My last ticket was however was at a revenue site rather than anywhere stupid. THAT pissed me off. All the others I consider to have been utterly deserved. Whereas that was just a tax.

Most of the things you'll get an on the spot fine for you shouldn't be doing whilst driving, involve driving without paying due care and attention, or can be summed up as driving like a selfish wanker. Which I have no problem with. If you are observant and don't take the piss/drive like a dick, you'll generally be ok. We're actually one of the better countries in that respect.

VimFuego · August 2013

oddly enuff (or not) I have, in over 20 years of driving never received a traffic ticket or a speeding ticket. Got pulled over once for a bust headlamp bulb, I thanked the officer for letting me know (I didn't realise at the time it was broken) and got sent on my merry way.

Sporky · August 2013

I got a speeding ticket when I was young and stupid.

I'm still stupid, but no longer stupid enough to get caught speeding. Though I did get pulled over a few months back for doing 60 in a 60 zone.

bertie · August 2013

As someone who spends 3 - 4 hours most days on a motorway, the actual policing and no. of fines they collect is irrelevant to me if it actually stops drivers doing these things in the first place.

Heartfeltdawn · August 2013

juansolo said:

Indeed I was on an autobahn recently where people were doing in excess of 130mph. Quite happily along with people pootling at 80-90mph and wagons doing 60. No one died that I could see. There was no righteous indignation. Just people getting to where they were going. Interestingly where the Germans do have speed limits, people seem to stick to them quite happily. Maybe if you don't treat the people like children, they're less likely to be disobedient when it actually matters. But again, this only makes any sense if road safety is actually your goal...

Germany population = 80 million.

Deaths on roads in 2010 = 3,657

Death on the autobahns in 2010 = 430

UK population = 63 million

Deaths on roads in 2012 - 1,754.

Deaths on the motorways 2010 = 118

Perhaps we're not as bad as many think.

ICBM · August 2013

Those statistics do seem to imply that higher speeds cause more fatalities than poor driving - even assuming that the Germans are better drivers than us. Of course, statistics...

But there is a good physics reason it may be so. Although poor driving causes more *accidents*, higher speed causes more *fatal* accidents - there's simply a point where the human body can't cope with the forces involved, even with modern crash-safety technology.

So from a road safety point of view it depends on whether you're concerned about accidents, injuries or deaths as to which might be the best approach. Personally I'd go with caring less about minor accidents and more about deaths.

VimFuego · August 2013

Heartfeltdawn said:

juansolo said:

Indeed I was on an autobahn recently where people were doing in excess of 130mph. Quite happily along with people pootling at 80-90mph and wagons doing 60. No one died that I could see. There was no righteous indignation. Just people getting to where they were going. Interestingly where the Germans do have speed limits, people seem to stick to them quite happily. Maybe if you don't treat the people like children, they're less likely to be disobedient when it actually matters. But again, this only makes any sense if road safety is actually your goal...

Germany population = 80 million.

Deaths on roads in 2010 = 3,657

Death on the autobahns in 2010 = 430

UK population = 63 million

Deaths on roads in 2012 - 1,754.

Deaths on the motorways 2010 = 118

Perhaps we're not as bad as many think.

thanks for posting that, I recall seeing a similar stat ages ago, but couldn't be arsed to look it up, have a pos rep.

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