Best Boutique PAF for the Gibson Historic Tone

cj73 · December 2016

Voxman said:

Trying to recommend a pick-up is like trying to recommend a guitar amp speaker - there are so many, and everyone likes different things.

Years ago, there was a guitar design (originally John Birch I think, and then IIRC Hamer or Shergold?), who made a guitar where the p/ups were 'modular', and encased in a resin 'holder' that could be popped out of the guitar and other types popped back in in 5 secs flat with no need to solder - the connection points were built in. It was a brilliant concept that just never seemed to catch on - but the idea was you could go into a store and pop in a dozen or more different p/ups to hear them in your guitar, & then buy the ones you liked.

Maybe it didn't catch on because you could go in to a store and pop a dozen in to try them ....instead of buying loads to see what you liked...

slacker · December 2016

Niallseroreilly said:

slacker said:

Niallseroreilly said:

Anyone any experience with Lollar Imperials?

Yes, you anywhere near Bedfordshire?

In Belfast, NI mate. Appreciate the thought man.

It was worth a try.

fretfinder · December 2016

I put BKP Stormy Mondays in an R7 and it sounded great. I put Throbaks in an R9 and they sounded great. I have Custom Buckers in a 2014 R9 and they sound great. I had WCR Filmores in an R8 and they sounded great. I had different sets of Burstbuckers in two different R8s and they were OK.

Maybe my ears aren't good enough these days to distinguish the finer points but I think that as well as the pickups so much has to do with the wiring, the body wood, the fingerboard, the fretsize, the neck thickness, the cable, the pedals, the amp, the speaker, the room...

DaiCapp · December 2016

fretfinder said:

I put BKP Stormy Mondays in an R7 and it sounded great. I put Throbaks in an R9 and they sounded great. I have Custom Buckers in a 2014 R9 and they sound great. I had WCR Filmores in an R8 and they sounded great. I had different sets of Burstbuckers in two different R8s and they were OK.

Maybe my ears aren't good enough these days to distinguish the finer points but I think that as well as the pickups so much has to do with the wiring, the body wood, the fingerboard, the fretsize, the neck thickness, the cable, the pedals, the amp, the speaker, the room...

yep - only other thing would be the players pick attack and feel. I've known players who could probably make The Beast sound crap!

Twinfan · December 2016

Throbaks (the 'plus' versions) and Mojos have been my favourites. You can't beat Marc's for the money though!

Chalky · December 2016

Niallseroreilly said:

Anyone any experience with Lollar Imperials?

I have them and I'd say BKP Stormy Mondays are very similar.

jesone · December 2016

I said earlier that Wizz are my favourites, and I've been through Throbak, Wolfetones, OX4, OTPG, Shed, Sheptones, Lollar, and a few more in my time. My curiosity has been piqued by the Monty's & I've ordered a set to try out. That's the danger of threads like these, they re-ignite the fire sometimes.

Jonathanthomas83 · December 2016

@zepp76 just changed his BB pros to some really nice PAFs, he may chime in

OilCityPickups · December 2016

Adam_MD said:

Niallseroreilly said:

Have a Les Paul Standard 2013 with BB Pros. I don't mind them, but was wondering if anyone has any experience in changing them out and putting in something a bit more boutique. Any insights.
Ive heard good things about Lindy Fralin Pure PAF.

Good luck I've spent a lot of money in that rabbit hole

There is, in my experience, no perfect PAF, because In my experience no to original PAFs sound exactly alike. I've handled, played and repaired/rewound a significant number of vintage PAFs over the years, and even Gibson in their golden era didn't make perfect PAFs ... it's simply that some the wound sound very, very good indeed.
Any boutique winder worth his salt should be able to make you a VERY good PAF style pickup ... its not rocket science, and the parts for these are are reasonably readily available. You should be able to tell your winder what signature PAF characteristics are most important to you and he should be able to accentuate those tones in the final pickup.
I would be wary of any 'holy grail' claims mind, as there are in truth several different 'grail' tones!

earwighoney · December 2016

TheGuitarWeasel said:
There is, in my experience, no perfect PAF, because In my experience no to original PAFs sound exactly alike. I've handled, played and repaired/rewound a significant number of vintage PAFs over the years, and even Gibson in their golden era didn't make perfect PAFs ... it's simply that some the wound sound very, very good indeed.
Any boutique winder worth his salt should be able to make you a VERY good PAF style pickup ... its not rocket science, and the parts for these are are reasonably readily available. You should be able to tell your winder what signature PAF characteristics are most important to you and he should be able to accentuate those tones in the final pickup.
I would be wary of any 'holy grail' claims mind, as there are in truth several different 'grail' tones!

Well said.

I'd like to add with different playing styles, guitars, amps etc different types of PAF's (and any other pickup) will please listeners in different ways.

Niallseroreilly · December 2016

I appreciate all these comments, i suppose what i dont favour in the burstbucker pros is the muddyness of the neck and the harsh brightness in the bridge.

What i would be after is a smooth clarity in the neck and some nice power in the bridge.

Again im sorry if this is wishy washey.

OilCityPickups · December 2016

Niallseroreilly said:

I appreciate all these comments, i suppose what i dont favour in the burstbucker pros is the muddyness of the neck and the harsh brightness in the bridge.

What i would be after is a smooth clarity in the neck and some nice power in the bridge.

Again im sorry if this is wishy washey.

Unbalanced low wound, alnico 4 in the neck. a tad hotter than vintage and alnico 2 at the bridge ... I'd look at those specs and find pickups to suit. Plenty out there :-)

zepp76 · December 2016

Jonathanthomas83 said:

@zepp76 just changed his BB pros to some really nice PAFs, he may chime in

@Jonathanthomas83 I haven't even ordered them yet! Will be a while before I get them put in.

Jonathanthomas83 · December 2016

@zepp76 ;Ha, sorry...misunderstood!

impmann · December 2016

As has been said a "PAF" isn't an exact science... and even some of the big boys say some daft things... such as Tim Mills describing the best PAF tone as Jimmy Page's Les Paul in a magazine interview - which hasn't had a PAF in the bridge position since the early 70s and currently sports a custom Seymour Duncan unit IIRC.

Also different guitars react differently to different pickups - I put Seymour Duncan Seth Lovers in a Tokai 335 clone I had and it sounded *off the scale* good. I put another set in a different 335-alike and they were a bit 'meh'.

A good pickup maker will be able to tailor the wind (number of winds, tightness and shape of the wind) to the magnet (strength, type etc) to suit exactly what you want. But to do this, you will need to be able to describe what you are searching for rather than "a PAF".

Good luck in your quest - but don't get too wrapped up in chasing a tone down a rabbit hole!

SunDevil · December 2016

Not wishing to take this thread off topic, but here goes:

I had a set of Monty's PAFs in a 335 and whilst each pup sounded great in isolation, I play 90% of the time in the mid position (tweaking the respective vol and tones to taste for a given song) and there was always an odd mismatch / almost frequency-specific cancellation effect that I was never totally happy with (..they were in phase, it was much more subtle than that) regardless of how much tweaking I did.

Ultimately I flipped them

As I understand it from taking to Matt, he uses an A5 in the neck and an A2 in the bridge and my experience has put me off mixing magnet types, but just wondering if there's a 'thing' there, or whether that was a one-off?

p90fool · December 2016

SunDevil said:

Not wishing to take this thread off topic, but here goes:

I had a set of Monty's PAFs in a 335 and whilst each pup sounded great in isolation, I play 90% of the time in the mid position (tweaking the respective vol and tones to taste for a given song) and there was always an odd mismatch / almost frequency-specific cancellation effect that I was never totally happy with (..they were in phase, it was much more subtle than that) regardless of how much tweaking I did.

Ultimately I flipped them

As I understand it from taking to Matt, he uses an A5 in the neck and an A2 in the bridge and my experience has put me off mixing magnet types, but just wondering if there's a 'thing' there, or whether that was a one-off?

It's definitely a "thing" but don't ask me what. I've recently changed a pickup in my Les Paul and despite both being very bright and lively I've lost that lovely chime I used to have in the middle that made me want to play the intro to Surfin' USA all day.

It still sounds absolutely fine, but it's lost that bell-like immediacy it used to have. Listening to either pickup in isolation you'd never predict that the combination would be a little lifeless.

SunDevil · December 2016

Thanks @p90fool - is that a mix of magnet types to in your case?

Shamed though I am to admit this, reading your post has got an old Sheryl Cole shampoo advert stuck in my head

<add you're own Jordie accent >

"..weak, limp, lifeless.."

p90fool · December 2016

SunDevil said:

Thanks @p90fool - is that a mix of magnet types to in your case?

Yes, it's a mixture of A5 and rubber fridge magnet (Teisco type), so about as different as it gets!

shoganai · December 2016

Someone else already mentioned these guys but Doug and Pat have 7 30-40 minute videos on Youtube in which they play a lot of boutique humbuckers including the Monty's, Shed and Bare Knuckle ones mentioned here alongside a load of US and Canadian sets. The quality of the recorded sound is excellent and their approach is non-judgmental allowing you to make up your own mind. I have found their videos invaluable in what is a very crowded marketplace.

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Best Boutique PAF for the Gibson Historic Tone

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