Vintage style trem: how much abuse can they take?

guitars4you · October 2017

Schnozz said:

If you're asking this question then you need an Original Floyd Rose.

no doubt that the tuning stability of a Floyd Rose is superior and you can fully loosen the strings to nothing if that is your gig - but a) they suck the 'natural' tone out of a guitar, especially more noticeable on less over driven amp settings and b) a total pain to set-up/adjust (admittedly fine once done)

ICBM · October 2017

guitars4you said:

no doubt that the tuning stability of a Floyd Rose is superior and you can fully loosen the strings to nothing if that is your gig - but a) they suck the 'natural' tone out of a guitar, especially more noticeable on less over driven amp settings

I used to think so, but I no longer do. I've come across quite a few examples of guitars with Floyds that are extremely resonant and vibrant-sounding, even clean. I now think it's more likely that their reputation for that comes from being fitted to a lot of 90s guitars with basswood bodies and very thin necks.

Strangefan · October 2017

guitars4you said:

Schnozz said:

If you're asking this question then you need an Original Floyd Rose.

no doubt that the tuning stability of a Floyd Rose is superior and you can fully loosen the strings to nothing if that is your gig - but a) they suck the 'natural' tone out of a guitar, especially more noticeable on less over driven amp settings and b) a total pain to set-up/adjust (admittedly fine once done)

*nope sorry this is not true. I have owned plenty of both and have never had an issue with a floyd in the tone department, granted they usually have hotter pickups but I always change the neck single and it always sounds just as good compared to my strat.

cosmiccarrot · October 2017

daveyh said:

IIRC the first Van Halen album was done with the frankenstrat pre-Floyd Rose

EVH set the standard trem to sit back onto the body allowing for dive downs only, it's actually easier to keep in tune and more resonant imo.

Handsome_Chris · October 2017

I believe that EVH's dive on Eruption is a Univox tape echo.

guitars4you · October 2017

ICBM said:

guitars4you said:

no doubt that the tuning stability of a Floyd Rose is superior and you can fully loosen the strings to nothing if that is your gig - but a) they suck the 'natural' tone out of a guitar, especially more noticeable on less over driven amp settings

I used to think so, but I no longer do. I've come across quite a few examples of guitars with Floyds that are extremely resonant and vibrant-sounding, even clean. I now think it's more likely that their reputation for that comes from being fitted to a lot of 90s guitars with basswood bodies and very thin necks.

Strangefan said:
*nope sorry this is not true. I have owned plenty of both and have never had an issue with a floyd in the tone department, granted they usually have hotter pickups but I always change the neck single and it always sounds just as good compared to my strat.

validity in the comments regarding the bass wood and thin necks so take your point on board - I suppose to be fair it is very rare these days to find a customer who has taken say a reg Strat and added a Floyd Rose as an aftermarket add on - hence a comparison of before and after - And validity in the comments regarding the tonal character of the hotter pick-ups and as such they do tend to be played more by the gain based virtuoso style players - Not a definitive statement but certainly a general overview - hence some of my natural dislike for F Rose trems is based on the style of songs played on them, which in turn tends to influence my comments on tone - so granted I should be more open minded - - I think that apart from the Charvel San Dimas based neck profiles there are few F Rose based Guitars I bond with - My comment on the set-up still holds

ICBM · October 2017

guitars4you said:

Charvel San Dimas

Yes. One of the most - if not THE most - resonant guitar with a Floyd I've ever heard is a friend's San Dimas. But another friend had an identical guitar (apart from the colour!) which was much less so, although not bad. Thus it's the wood and not the Floyd

.

(Cue can-of-worms opening…

)

Also the Floral Jem I nearly bought a few months ago was a very resonant guitar compared to any RG I've played, including the high-end RG750 I once owned - but Jems also have a bigger neck.

clarkefan · October 2017

I remember years ago going regularly to see a pub covers band, guitar player used to play a 62 Strat (like I said, years ago). Walked in a bit late one night and immediately heard there was something different, thinner, about his tone before he came into view.

He'd had a Floyd fitted. "My guitar, I can do what I like with it" he told me afterwards. Fair enough...

ICBM · October 2017

clarkefan said:

I remember years ago going regularly to see a pub covers band, guitar player used to play a 62 Strat (like I said, years ago). Walked in a bit late one night and immediately heard there was something different, thinner, about his tone before he came into view.

He'd had a Floyd fitted.

I'm not doubting that at all, but in order to tell it was the Floyd, you would also have to know…

Was he using the same string gauge, or had he gone down? eg 10s to 9s.
Was the action the same, or lower? A lower action can sound thinner even without audible buzz.
Was the neck shimmed? It does have to be (usually quite a lot) on a Strat unless you recess the Floyd.
Had the pickups been raised enough to compensate for the greater string height over the body?
Even simply taking the neck off the body to rout it and re-fitting it can sometimes change the tone, if it doesn't go back quite as snugly as it had been.

All those things could thin the tone fairly noticeably, without the Floyd itself sounding any different from a standard trem. I'm not saying it definitely doesn't, just that there are other factors involved as well. I've now heard enough guitars with Floyds that sound great to be sure that the Floyd *by itself* is not the tone-killer it's often made out to be.

clarkefan · October 2017

Fair points

I've no idea. I do remember him saying he'd had it done professionally, so it's entirely possible a lot of those structural things were done.

He was old school so unlikely to have chosen that moment to change strings, but could of course have been advised to.

peteri · October 2017

Can only agree with the comments above. I’m old enough to have butchered several guitars in the 80s - my weapon of choice being the Kahler Flyer!

All ended up with a degree of tone suck.

This summer I got a Feline Guitars with a Schaller Floyd - as resonant as you like and a joy to play

Goes to show a teenage boy with a chisel can do more harm than good!

WezV · October 2017

khaler's suffer from bad fitting just like floyd's

you need the saddles set high on a Khaler. The big flaw is the bottom half of height adjustment.... it will sound crap if the saddles are in that zone. Surface mount one on a strat style and the saddles will be in that zone and it will always sound crap.

ICBM · October 2017

WezV said:

khaler's suffer from bad fitting just like floyd's

you need the saddles set high on a Khaler. The big flaw is the bottom half of height adjustment.... it will sound crap if the saddles are in that zone. Surface mount one on a strat style and the saddles will be in that zone and it will always sound crap.

I recessed the one on my original Aria RS, which solved the problem but contributed even further to the body being modded beyond restoration… I would have just tilted the neck, but I'd already glued it in at that point, before I learned of less permanent methods of fixing a loose neck joint

.

But for real tone-suck, the Wilkinson Converter trumped everything - I know some people like them, but it sounded absolutely dreadful to me. It lasted 24 hrs before I took it off again.

koneguitarist · October 2017

HAL9000 said:

Jimi?

He was out of tune before using the trem!

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Vintage style trem: how much abuse can they take?

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