Bent steel Strat saddles are rubbish

WezV · November 2017

timmysoft said:

stickyfiddle said:

That needs a shim in a big way...

Should look like this is the neck/body/bridge geometry is right:

The action and intonation is fine so I’d rather not add a shim when I don’t think it really needs it.

It does need it. You could just get shorter screws but it will be better with the saddles set a bit higher.

Measure the action first first so you can set it back where it was... intonation shouldn’t move much, it will only need a slight tweak

guitarfishbay · November 2017

I agree, I would shim that personally, the saddles are super low. Also IIRC you’re quite a heavy picker? You might actually prefer the feel once it has been shimmed, it can make the feel a bit snappier.

WezV · November 2017

If you wonder what makes it better when set a bit higher, just compare the angle of the saddle itself and the string behind it in the two pics above.

guitarfishbay · November 2017

WezV said:

If you wonder what makes it better when set a bit higher, just compare the angle of the saddle itself and the string behind it in the two pics above.

Yep, same thing with lowering the tailpiece on a tune-o-matic, increases the angle (which I also generally prefer)

axisus · November 2017

Strats look wrong without them.

timmysoft · November 2017

I’m just going to go for the Graphtechs, I’ve had them on loads of strats and I think they’re a huge improvement in terms of playability and stability.

I should probably add, that I tune low, CACFAD.

WezV · November 2017

timmysoft said:

I should probably add, that I tune low, CACFAD.

is that strat doing a good impression of a sitar? I would expect the low saddles and low tension to lead to a lot of sympathetic vibration on those saddles

if you know you like graphtech, go for them. But I would still consider adding a shim

guitarfishbay · November 2017

timmysoft said:

I’m just going to go for the Graphtechs, I’ve had them on loads of strats and I think they’re a huge improvement in terms of playability and stability.

I should probably add, that I tune low, CACFAD.

Fair enough, if you know you like them then go for them, you still might need a shim though on that guitar looking at the sadles. Personally I tune BF#BEG#C# and prefer the brighter sound of the block saddles. Graphtecs dull the attack ever so slightly, it’s not a big deal but enough that I prefer metal saddles

Schnozz · November 2017

Get a G&L and thank me later.

stickyfiddle · November 2017

It's worth noting that in this case Graphtechs may not actually fix the issue. Because your neck angle is that little bit too flat you might find that the grub screws on the Graphtechs stick out above the level of the saddle (depending on their length) or even that you can't get the action low enough, if the depth of the saddle is greater than the depth of the bent steel ones.

Don't be afraid of taking the neck off if that's the issue - it's daunting the first time, but really very simple. A couple of bits of cornflake packet are probably all it needs.

timmysoft · November 2017

stickyfiddle said:

It's worth noting that in this case Graphtechs may not actually fix the issue. Because your neck angle is that little bit too flat you might find that the grub screws on the Graphtechs stick out above the level of the saddle (depending on their length) or even that you can't get the action low enough, if the depth of the saddle is greater than the depth of the bent steel ones.

Don't be afraid of taking the neck off if that's the issue - it's daunting the first time, but really very simple. A couple of bits of cornflake packet are probably all it needs.

I know the Graphtechs will fix the issue as I’ve had the same issue before. No fear in taking necks off, I used to guitar tech for a few UK bands, so I’m pretty experienced in terms of set ups and problem solving. I think this guitar is fine the way it is though, I just don’t understand why fender would supply it with such huge adjustment screws!

p90fool · November 2017

That's just badly set up. I don't understand why you'd replace parts to fix the problem when the tools you'll need to do that can be used to fix it for free.

It's like buying new wheels for your car because the wheel nuts are loose.

timmysoft · November 2017

p90fool said:

That's just badly set up. I don't understand why you'd replace parts to fix the problem when the tools you'll need to do that can be used to fix it for free.

It's like buying new wheels for your car because the wheel nuts are loose.

It’s not badly set up if it plays well, intonates correctly and stays in tune! I don’t like the design or feel of the bent saddles, for me they’ll always be the shittiest part of a Strat. I’m replacing the parts because I see them as being a good upgrade and will solve the problems I have with the current saddles.

So its more like im changing the tyres because I don’t like wheel spin in 3rd gear.

ICBM · November 2017

timmysoft said:

I just don’t understand why fender would supply it with such huge adjustment screws!

They don't. They supply them with the correct screws to give the proper bridge geometry.

The problem is that on this guitar, the neck is a little too low, due to normal production tolerances - Fender fitted factory shims, and later a neck tilt mechanism, precisely to address this issue. The idea with the neck tilt is that you set the saddles to the right height first, then adjust the neck angle if the action isn't low enough.

It's a bit more of a faff if you have to shim it, admittedly.

guitarfishbay · November 2017

It needs a shim IMO, from looking at your picture. I don’t know how graphetc saddles are going to fix the issue unless they have drastically shorter screws. The issue you’re having is not caused by the bent saddles, it should still be able to be set up without the screws protruding. I still agreee that block saddles are more comfortable, but your primary issue of the screws is more suitably solved by shimming in this case

p90fool · November 2017

timmysoft said:

p90fool said:

That's just badly set up. I don't understand why you'd replace parts to fix the problem when the tools you'll need to do that can be used to fix it for free.

It's like buying new wheels for your car because the wheel nuts are loose.

It’s not badly set up if it plays well, intonates correctly and stays in tune!

It doesn't play well, the saddle screws are in the way.

You can adjust the whole guitar to fix it and takes 20 minutes or so of faffing around, then your saddle screws will have a good range of adjustment for the next 50 years.

If you just prefer the Graphtecs though that's fine too, they do feel nicer under the hand.

timmysoft · November 2017

guitarfishbay said:

It needs a shim IMO, from looking at your picture. I don’t know how graphetc saddles are going to fix the issue unless they have drastically shorter screws. The issue you’re having is not caused by the bent saddles, it should still be able to be set up without the screws protruding. I still agreee that block saddles are more comfortable, but your primary issue of the screws is more suitably solved by shimming in this case

Graphtechs do have much shorter screws, plus they feel much nicer under the hands.

I also dont want my strings miles off the body, I find that uncomfortable on a Strat

ICBM · November 2017

timmysoft said:

I also dont want my strings miles off the body, I find that uncomfortable on a Strat

They won't be miles off the body, they will be at the standard height.

The Strat was designed - and most are built - so that with the height screws roughly flush with the tops of the saddles then the string height is normal and the action is correct.

If they stick up too much then either the neck pocket is fractionally too deep (due to manufacturing tolerance variations) or sometimes there's a small amount of finish build-up on the outer edge of the pocket which is acting as a 'reverse shim'.

Probably at least three-quarters of Strats set up pretty well with no shim and the saddle screws not sticking up above the saddles. Some don't...

timmysoft · November 2017

ICBM said:

timmysoft said:

I also dont want my strings miles off the body, I find that uncomfortable on a Strat

They won't be miles off the body, they will be at the standard height.

The Strat was designed - and most are built - so that with the height screws roughly flush with the tops of the saddles then the string height is normal and the action is correct.

If they stick up too much then either the neck pocket is fractionally too deep (due to manufacturing tolerance variations) or sometimes there's a small amount of finish build-up on the outer edge of the pocket which is acting as a 'reverse shim'.

Probably at least three-quarters of Strats set up pretty well with no shim and the saddle screws not sticking up above the saddles. Some don't...

The strings would be another 2-3mm off the guitar body if I was to shin and raise the saddles. That is unlike any Strat I’ve ever owned, I like mine to play like super strats, not like a church.

ICBM · November 2017

timmysoft said:

The strings would be another 2-3mm off the guitar body if I was to shin and raise the saddles. That is unlike any Strat I’ve ever owned, I like mine to play like super strats, not like a church.

If the saddles were set at the top of the height screws - and the bridge is not somehow raised off the body - then the strings will be the same height as on any other Strat that's set up properly, *because that is how they're designed to be*. Most Strats are actually like this with no shim.

If fact Superstrats are typically *higher*, because a Floyd is taller than a standard Fender bridge and the neck does need to be shimmed.

By all means fit Graphtec saddles if you want, but it's possible that the screws could still stick up a bit. The problem is that the neck height or angle is too low, *not* that the saddles are too high. You may be able to solve the problem by using lower saddles, but it isn't really the best way.

If you have a car with the suspension height set wrong so the tyres are hitting the underside of the wheel arches, you *could* fix it by using lower-profile tyres…

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Bent steel Strat saddles are rubbish

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