Buyer's market?

WindmillGuitars · September 2020

We've seen a hike in people buying at both ends of the market in terms of price - plenty of folk coming in to buy their first guitar as they have time on their hands due to lockdown, and likewise - customers wishing to upgrade to something a little more upmarket/rare or vintage. It's the mid-market £700-£900 stuff that's been a little slower (..and there's deals to be had!)

imalrightjack · September 2020

I’ve brought and sold/traded a couple of guitars during lockdown, both bought out of curiosity. I’ve basically broken even on them, which is all I wanted. However, neither went particularly quickly and this was in spite of the fact that I bought them at what were definitely as good prices as I’d seen on them (a 339 and a Yamaha SA-2200). I don’t think either are particularly niche guitars, so I was surprised to struggle to shift them - and I always offer postage.

My Eric Johnson Strat is listed at what I think is a fair £1,200 and I’ve had a few offers of £1k, although it has only been up for a week, and I know I’m impatient. I’m not arsed about making profits, I just want to avoid losing too much money.

RaymondLin · September 2020

Roland said:

Peoples’ finances are all over the place. Touring musicians with no income. Salaried people working from home with no commuting costs and extra time on their hands. Furloughed or newly redundant with time but no money. Then, as @fretmeister says, there are people treating themselves. I suspect that this is not just lower priced items like pedals, but also that guitar you’ve been thinking about for months or years. There’s also the underlying trend away from large valve amps and cabinets which is exacerbated by the lack of gigging opportunities.

So I guess it might be a buyers market for some items, but not all.

My friend who is working from home now, used to commute to London at the cost of over £500 a month, he has saved a few thousands on travel plus more on food he used to buy. People in those shoes, with job security and little outlet to spend their money spends it other ways. Guitars are one of these.

I know someone at work who bought a starter guitar and amp too, I helped him picked out a nice little Bullet Strat and Katana.

more · September 2020

The music retail has been in decline for years. Every high street had a music shop , most have now gone . There has been a pick up in sales recently , so the retail survivors are doing OK . With live music at a standstill and money problems in the pipeline , I expect the current increases in sales will be short lived .But , I belive good quality equipment will hold it's value . Two years ago Gibson was bankrupt with $500 million debt . It was refinanced and said to be saved , straight into the pandemic . Quality Gibson's might be a good investment .

guitars4you · September 2020

more said:

The music retail has been in decline for years. Every high street had a music shop , most have now gone . There has been a pick up in sales recently , so the retail survivors are doing OK . With live music at a standstill and money problems in the pipeline , I expects the current increases in sales will be short lived . I expect good quality equipment will hold it's value . Two years ago Gibson was bankrupt with $500 million debt . It was refinanced and said to be saved , straight into the pandemic . Quality Gibson's might be a good investment .

Granted there are far less dealers now - But the dealers like Anderton's have seen a serious increase in their turnover - Since the days of www. and mail order, the big dealers have just got bigger and the trade/sales has never been more polarised - I'm not sure of the official current trade figures, but this is a distorted set of info as it only accounts for new products - The likes of Reverb, E-Bay etc is a seriously large market

The big issue with Gibson wasn't that it was a bad product that no one wanted- It is in fact the envy of many other guitar brands, as they will sell guitars regardless, based on their history/heritage etc - The big issue was poor management, buying up other companies that had nothing to do with guitars and a poor relationship with their dealers

Gerz6558 · September 2020

Due to these weird times we have a set of people who are struggling and are trying to sell their gear, and another who are fortunate enough to find themselves in stable jobs and discover they have more disposable income (no petrol or train tickets to pay for, no nights out to pay for).

I dont see much change from the stuff I've followed, bought and sold. Prices are on the up with certain brands though. For example, I was shocked to recently discover that you will be hard pushed to find a decent used ES335 under 2k anymore.

monquixote · September 2020

In all the years I've been on this website there has been a thread about once a month complaining that it is a "Buyers Market" not once have a seen a time when it was considered to be a "Sellers Market".

On this site stuff sells fast if it's considered to be the latest unicorn tears and unobtainium wonder machine, or if it's at a very low price.

I've had stuff that took 6 months to sell which would have probably gone on ebay in a week going back over the last 3-4 years. I prefer to deal on here and I'm not usually desperate for the money so I bide my time.

Blueingreen · September 2020

I don't think it's a buyer's market, quite the opposite.

What I think we have is what will turn out to be a very temporary sellers' market - not just for guitars but for other things that are a good fit for the current situation, including residential property.

We have people who are doing far less socialising, travelling, and eating out. There's less incentive to buy nice clothes. Many people find their earnings are not adversely affected by Covid (yet), it's harder to spend money, and their priorities are changed by spending much more time at home.

A surprising amount of people have little thought for the future when it comes to money. If they saved on a holiday this year, why not buy a guitar? I'd be in the "times are risky, let's save some for a rainy day" category, as will many here, but an amazing number of people just want to spend whatever they've got and, if they can borrow, a bit more as well.

There's been a counter intuitive hike in property prices, it's hard to find a tradesman because they are all so busy, dealers are selling out of electronic consumer goods. Guitars are good fit because people have time to kill at home.

But there's going to be a reckoning. People are going to lose their jobs, and the government is going to stop propping up unviable jobs, because the money's running out. Unemployment will put downward pressure on wages and house prices. There will be forced repossessions and negative equity. Taxes are going to rise to pay for the government's current largesse, maybe not straight away, but in the not too distant future. Even if we get a deal, Brexit will add massively to these problems.

You can't buck the simple fact that less after tax income will translate to lower demand, especially for luxury items. When most guitarists have more than one guitar already that extra one or marginal upgrade is a perfect description of luxury.

So no, not a buyers' market. But it will be soon.

Apologies for the gloom, but I can't see how else it can play out.

Moominpapa · September 2020

RaymondLin said:

My friend who is working from home now, used to commute to London at the cost of over £500 a month, he has saved a few thousands on travel plus more on food he used to buy. People in those shoes, with job security and little outlet to spend their money spends it other ways. Guitars are one of these.

Definitely some truth in that - my season ticket refund from South Western Railway and continued savings from not having to commute have bought me some nice gear in the last six months. But I realise I'm extremely lucky in my situation. It's pretty depressing seeing people put up treasured gear for sale in the classifieds here because they are getting hit hard by the effects of the COVID crisis.

merlin · September 2020

There's been a Spike in Sellers' market. And there's more where that came from. He's fallen in the wah-taa!

octatonic · September 2020

DrCornelius said:

I think it’s a buyers market on here only.

Most people (me included ) would much rather sell on here because the buyer is going to be one of us

I've never really understood this.
I mean, I like y'all but that doesn't necessarily translate to being willing to accept less than something is worth.

IMHO things work here is because many people accept trades.
I never trade stuff and don't sell very often which means I end up mostly a buyer here, never a seller.

I wonder if there is any way to figure out the sale to trade ratio on this forum?

Jimbro66 · September 2020

Gerz6558 said:

Prices are on the up with certain brands though. For example, I was shocked to recently discover that you will be hard pushed to find a decent used ES335 under 2k anymore.

I have a 1982 blonde ES-335 that I've been thinking of selling. It is identical to one JimmyGuitar had on here a year or two ago with an asking price of around £2,350. It was sold. I've been in touch with a specialist dealer to ask about a commission sale and he was quite sure he would sell mine for well in excess of £3k!

Whether that's because there are currently plenty of buyers with spare cash or whether it is a result of earlier vintage guitars becoming so hugely expensive I don't know but it does lend weight to @Gerz6558's findings.

UnclePsychosis · September 2020

The market is weird right now.

Some buyers have more spare cash than before. Some sellers are selling out of need. Gear that was a hard sell before - big, loud amps for example - are even more niche with gigs off the table.

Personally, judging by what I've seen on ebay (the forum here is a bubble with its own rules - a great bubble, but a small one) I think it's trending more towards a buyers market and will be even more so over the winter, as unemployment bites and Christmas appears over the horizon...

Gerz6558 · September 2020

Jimbro66 said:

Gerz6558 said:

Prices are on the up with certain brands though. For example, I was shocked to recently discover that you will be hard pushed to find a decent used ES335 under 2k anymore.

I have a 1982 blonde ES-335 that I've been thinking of selling. It is identical to one JimmyGuitar had on here a year or two ago with an asking price of around £2,350. It was sold. I've been in touch with a specialist dealer to ask about a commission sale and he was quite sure he would sell mine for well in excess of £3k!

Whether that's because there are currently plenty of buyers with spare cash or whether it is a result of earlier vintage guitars becoming so hugely expensive I don't know but it does lend weight to @Gerz6558's findings.

I thought I heard once that the early 80's ES335's are really highly regarded, as they started to go back to the golden age specs. I think it was somewhere in this Gibsons collection video:

I have a regular ebay search for ES335, despite not needing one anymore, but it's rare to find any under 2 grand now. It was only last year I picked up a used one for 1600.

Edit: hes got an 82 ES335 and talks about it just under the 22 minute mark.

Blaendulais · September 2020

Its odd on here. I have a American Professional Strat from 2014 in absolutely perfect condition that i felt like selling on here for 800. Its been up a couple of months here. I get daft enquiries about its weight and are there scratches on here from low fretters. I've just looked at ebay it seems I'm underselling it by about 300!!!.

Needless to say I have just withdrawn it.

soma1975 · September 2020

I always accept less than something is worth on here because it is a community and I'm not out to scalp you lot.

Just trying to minimise my losses down to what I'd consider a fair rental price for the duration I have held onto a bit of kit.

That said I have not had any sort of sniff for an as new 2020 Epi '61 SG only been out of the box for like 2 months which has been a real surprise.

TINMAN82 · October 2020

Blaendulais said:

Its odd on here. I have a American Professional Strat from 2014 in absolutely perfect condition that i felt like selling on here for 800. Its been up a couple of months here. I get daft enquiries about its weight and are there scratches on here from low fretters. I've just looked at ebay it seems I'm underselling it by about 300!!!.

Needless to say I have just withdrawn it.

eBay prices as advertised arn’t necessarily what they go for. The “make offers” system is widely used. I’d be amazed if the going rate for a used Am Pro strat is anything like £1100.

DrJazzTap · October 2020

I do prefer selling on here to ebay. You have less chance of a "issue" popping up six months later. Have you noticed how nobody leaves feedback on ebay anymore? Hmm

Rob1742 · October 2020

I think it’s a very strange market at the moment, not just with guitars but in many items.

People are struggling with employment, so are having to sell items quickly, so you would think sellers would be in an bad place price wise.

But fewer holidays, lockdown, means those with money have spare cash so are spending.

I don’t think it has ever been like this before. I spoke to a Bentley dealer yesterday and he said his company have never been busier since lockdown. Car sales are flying. Very very strange.

dannyboy82 · October 2020

Without fail, i have achieved a better price selling on eBay. My feeling is that the market on the fretboard is very “knowing” and will expect to pay right at the lower end. That’s not a criticism by the way, just my experience.

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