Who is the lead guitarist in this clip?

ICBM · November 2020

That's the way the business works these days, and rightly - performers have wised up to the situation in the past, where if they didn't get a percentage of the writing credits they were back to working in the chip shop once their 15 minutes was up and the record company dumped them.

In my opinion it's not a rip-off - from the point of view of the songwriter, a percentage of the royalties from a hit by a singer who didn't even do *anything* for their cut, is far better than the whole lot from a song which remains unheard. The singer has earned it by simply being the vehicle.

Jalapeno · November 2020

Switch625 said:

I did a google and found that Cathy Dennis also wrote/produced the Kylie hit "Can't Get You Out Of My Head". Amazing what you find out through these random threads.

She joint wrote it with Rob Davis (guitarist best known for being in Mud)

ToneControl · November 2020

EricTheWeary said:

Philly_Q said:

EricTheWeary said:

A bizarre thing I just read whilst trying to google this is that Dennis used to go out with Noel Fitzpatrick, the super vet, and that Toxic ( which Dennis co-wrote with Britney) is allegedly about him.
Bloody weird world of celebrity.

Yes, my brother told me that story. I didn't know who Noel Fitzpatrick was - I guess most people nowadays wouldn't know who Cathy Dennis is.

EricTheWeary said:

Switch625 said:

I did a google and found that Cathy Dennis also wrote/produced the Kylie hit "Can't Get You Out Of My Head". Amazing what you find out through these random threads.

And co-wrote I Kissed a Girl. I suspect for that and Toxic she probably wrote them and there was an agreement that she got co-writing credits, although entirely my speculation.

I heard an interview with some professional songwriter/pianist the other day - can't remember his name and I'd never heard of him before. He was saying there's quite a complicated etiquette around songwriting credits nowadays. When you look at new albums by, say, Beyoncé, each individual track has different producers and every track has multiple writing credits - the artist, the producers, the guys they sampled something from, everyone who made some tiny suggestion in the studio... the person who actually wrote the original tune will be in there somewhere, but they're sharing the royalties with a lot of other people.

Noel is one of those people who pop up in odd places on TV/radio. He's a veterinary professor and not very rock and roll so seems a long way away from someone who might go out with a pop star. Although possibly more of a household name these days than Dennis is.

I watched bits of Supervet and I tended to have reservations about how he charged people huge sums of money for cutting edge procedures on animals. I'd have to rewatch and maybe rethink but the ethics of it didn't sit well with me at the time so he seems an odd figure to me.

Back on the songs I remember listening to an interview with Lilly Allen ( and I quite like some of her stuff) and she was asked about songwriting. From what I understood she came up with some of the words and got 50% of the song writing credit. But she didn't seem to understand that other people would perceive this as her ripping off the actual songwriters. I suppose 50% of the royalties for a song recorded by a successful artist is better than 50% of the royalties for a song recorded by no one so everyone goes along with it.

loads of stars do it, you get Madonna, Robbie Williams, etc, "collaborate" with an excellent writer, and then change the words a bit. tbh the real writer will be far better off than they would have been

I try to tell my kids that their boy band favourites who "write their own songs" don't really.

Blueingreen · November 2020

The problem with copyright law is that no set of rules you can devise will lead to a fair outcome in all cases, there's always going to be a massive amount of arbitrariness. Songwriting credits have always to some extent reflected the power structure, and sometimes the price of getting your song on an album by a megastar is being willing to accept they get a writing credit. It's the way of the world and in many cases reflects a reality: that the main reason your song is going to make a lot of money isn't that it's the greatest song ever written, but because it's been recorded by a top-selling act.

One thing I don't like is that often for political reasons critics refuse to look beyond the songwriting credits. So we see artists being hailed not only as great performers (which they probably are) but as creative geniuses based on their alleged songwriting, when a modicum of digging around would suggest that their input beyond their singing amounts to some doggerel lyrics.

AK99 · November 2020

EricTheWeary said:

Noel is one of those people who pop up in odd places on TV/radio. He's a veterinary professor and not very rock and roll so seems a long way away from someone who might go out with a pop star. Although possibly more of a household name these days than Dennis is.

I watched bits of Supervet and I tended to have reservations about how he charged people huge sums of money for cutting edge procedures on animals. I'd have to rewatch and maybe rethink but the ethics of it didn't sit well with me at the time so he seems an odd figure to me.

I watched one (and only one episode) where he designed and fitted an artificial hip joint to a 3 legged cat (which I think came to the owner as a stray - tho I may just be making that bit up). The final cost to the owner was not disclosed.

My father who is not a cat-person, still relates the tale in disbelief to this very day

ICBM · November 2020

AK99 said:

I watched one (and only one episode) where he designed and fitted an artificial hip joint to a 3 legged cat (which I think came to the owner as a stray - tho I may just be making that bit up). The final cost to the owner was not disclosed.

My father who is not a cat-person, still relates the tale in disbelief to this very day

My dad had a much loved cat which needed a hip replacement. The poor cat was in serious pain from it and the only alternative was to have him put down (the cat, not Dad...

). The insurance didn't cover it, of course.

It cost £4K, some time in the 1990s. Dad still thinks it was worth it - the cat lived about another ten years!

I don't know if I would have done the same, even if I could afford it... it's a tough question.

This may be the most surreal thread diversion on the forum.

bloodandtears · November 2020

so no-one knows who she is then?

the_jaffa · November 2020

bloodandtears said:

so no-one knows who she is then?

Seems not

Bod · November 2020

Switch625 said:

I did a google and found that Cathy Dennis also wrote/produced the Kylie hit "Can't Get You Out Of My Head". Amazing what you find out through these random threads.

The other writer of that song was Rob Davis - guitarist from Mud.

EDIT

Just scrolled up and @Jalapeno beat me to it

Bod · November 2020

Double post - ignore.

Kittyfrisk · November 2020

I thought maybe David St. Hubbins... until I noticed it was a woman.

Spinal Tap co-creators get OK to pursue 400M fraud case

ToneControl · November 2020

AK99 said:

EricTheWeary said:

Noel is one of those people who pop up in odd places on TV/radio. He's a veterinary professor and not very rock and roll so seems a long way away from someone who might go out with a pop star. Although possibly more of a household name these days than Dennis is.

I watched bits of Supervet and I tended to have reservations about how he charged people huge sums of money for cutting edge procedures on animals. I'd have to rewatch and maybe rethink but the ethics of it didn't sit well with me at the time so he seems an odd figure to me.

I watched one (and only one episode) where he designed and fitted an artificial hip joint to a 3 legged cat (which I think came to the owner as a stray - tho I may just be making that bit up). The final cost to the owner was not disclosed.

My father who is not a cat-person, still relates the tale in disbelief to this very day

I think anyone would be locked up if they attempted anything he does on humans

Switch625 · November 2020

Could it be Heather Enid Wells?

http://www.travellingrecords.co.uk/heather.html

She mentions that she's played with Cathy Dennis' Dad, and she's from Norwich...

If anybody has Linked In Premium send her a message to find out - https://uk.linkedin.com/in/heather-enid-wells-17226810

viz · November 2020

Switch625 said:

Could it be Heather Enid Wells?

http://www.travellingrecords.co.uk/heather.html

She mentions that she's played with Cathy Dennis' Dad, and she's from Norwich...

If anybody has Linked In Premium send her a message to find out - https://uk.linkedin.com/in/heather-enid-wells-17226810

I don't think it is. I was thinking she looked a teeny bit like Bridget Mermikides (who has done some electric guitar work) but actually I'm sure it's not.

Stuckfast · November 2020

ToneControl said:
loads of stars do it, you get Madonna, Robbie Williams, etc, "collaborate" with an excellent writer, and then change the words a bit. tbh the real writer will be far better off than they would have been

I try to tell my kids that their boy band favourites who "write their own songs" don't really.

This is a popular piece of cynicism but I don't think it's true in most cases. Most pop stars do actually have talent and a strong work ethic, that's usually why they are pop stars. Most of Robbie Williams' hits for instance were co-written with Guy Chambers, and while I'm sure Chambers probably did more of the donkey work, I'm also sure that Williams did more than just change the odd word.

ToneControl · November 2020

Stuckfast said:

ToneControl said:
loads of stars do it, you get Madonna, Robbie Williams, etc, "collaborate" with an excellent writer, and then change the words a bit. tbh the real writer will be far better off than they would have been

I try to tell my kids that their boy band favourites who "write their own songs" don't really.

This is a popular piece of cynicism but I don't think it's true in most cases. Most pop stars do actually have talent and a strong work ethic, that's usually why they are pop stars. Most of Robbie Williams' hits for instance were co-written with Guy Chambers, and while I'm sure Chambers probably did more of the donkey work, I'm also sure that Williams did more than just change the odd word.

I don't know what each artist does, but you know what I mean
I suspect it is most of them, they'd be writing songs already if they were able to

in fact, after writing that earlier on I read an interview with Cathy Dennis where she describes this issue herself

here it is: The Gentlewoman – Cathy Dennis

The most intense relationship between writer and performer emerges from co-authorship. Currently on the rise in the music industry, it can be a tricky process, with singers craving credibility and royalties, but having very little to add creatively. Cathy is largely diplomatic. “This year I have been working with artists a lot and mostly I’ve enjoyed it. Of course there are times when people don’t pull their weight. It’s annoying when you give them half a song and you think, ‘Well, you didn’t do anything other than say yes and no!’ But I have said many times over the past year, and I should remind myself right now, that I just don’t think it’s cool to start breaking down who did what in terms of input. What’s done is done

horsehead · November 2020

EricTheWeary said:

A bizarre thing I just read whilst trying to google this is that Dennis used to go out with Noel Fitzpatrick, the super vet, and that Toxic ( which Dennis co-wrote with Britney) is allegedly about him.
Bloody weird world of celebrity.

If you go looking on YouTube, there's a video of Cathy's (forever shall she be known, being the pinup of my younger years) original recording of toxic that she gave to Britney.... It's indistinguishable from the released version

Sassafras · November 2020

bloodandtears said:

so no-one knows who she is then?

No, but it seems she's got a bad hip and might be put down by a celebrity vet.

EricTheWeary · November 2020

horsehead said:

EricTheWeary said:

A bizarre thing I just read whilst trying to google this is that Dennis used to go out with Noel Fitzpatrick, the super vet, and that Toxic ( which Dennis co-wrote with Britney) is allegedly about him.
Bloody weird world of celebrity.

If you go looking on YouTube, there's a video of Cathy's (forever shall she be known, being the pinup of my younger years) original recording of toxic that she gave to Britney.... It's indistinguishable from the released version

Just waiting on a Teams call. The vocal from that demo forms part of the final Britney version from what I have read and can hear. There's an almost falsetto part from about 40 seconds in that I think is Cathy singing, ostensibly lifted from the demo. She's certainly credited with BVs on the track.

soma1975 · November 2020

Is that guitarist the woman who used to be a presenter on Rock School?

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Who is the lead guitarist in this clip?

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