It’s the annual Gibson price increase thread

dern · October 2021

Don't buy them. There's plenty of choice.

ZenOvertone · October 2021

I bought a Fender American Original Strat for under 1500 new just a few months ago, new price from latest delivery is 1799

Boromedic · October 2021

TeleMaster said:

It’ll just turn to expensive and wasteful consumption. Without an alternative the necessity and demand will remain, and the consumer will be charged more and be forced to pay for it.

That’s capitalism for you.

Yeah, lots of predictions about late stage capitalism etc. thing is there will be a tipping point where people can't buy the latest pointless thing anymore as they won't have the money, either real or borrowed... Wonder what will happen then

victorludorum · October 2021

Boromedic said:

TeleMaster said:

It’ll just turn to expensive and wasteful consumption. Without an alternative the necessity and demand will remain, and the consumer will be charged more and be forced to pay for it.

That’s capitalism for you.

Yeah, lots of predictions about late stage capitalism etc. thing is there will be a tipping point where people can't buy the latest pointless thing anymore as they won't have the money, either real or borrowed... Wonder what will happen then

That's when Universal Basic Income will kick in. Fire up those helicopters!

HandwrittenHero · October 2021

Boromedic said:

TeleMaster said:

It’ll just turn to expensive and wasteful consumption. Without an alternative the necessity and demand will remain, and the consumer will be charged more and be forced to pay for it.

That’s capitalism for you.

Yeah, lots of predictions about late stage capitalism etc. thing is there will be a tipping point where people can't buy the latest pointless thing anymore as they won't have the money, either real or borrowed... Wonder what will happen then

That's when the system will claw in further support by whatever means needed by those "too big to fail" usually another round of Govt subsidy etc.

Socialism for the rich, capitalism for the serfs.

Of course that's once it actually gets to the point where people genuinely not just can't afford but won't afford. Never underestimate the creativity of capitalism in finding new ways to extract from the market. PCP etc. will probably look antiquated by the time they've run out of schemes and actually hit the endgame.

Neil · October 2021

ICBM said:

Maybe we’ll all just have to get used to owning only one, like they did in the old days.

Wisdom.

No one is forcing anyone to keep buying multiple guitars and then moaning about the price rises.

LPManic · October 2021

Are the prices of other brands also going up? Bored of the cheap (pun half-intended) Gibson bashing online.

chrisj1602 · October 2021

Buying from closer to home is getting a lot more temping with builders like Ivison, Daniels and Trent, and also Golden Era if you fancy a build.

richardhomer · October 2021

I’ve just part-exchanged a 3 year old VW Golf and got 78% of what I paid for it.

Obviously I paid through the nose for the new one, though…

Whitecat · October 2021

Adey said:

guitars4you said:

Timber price increases are going to have a major impact on prices - I heard that even the availability of good mahogany and even figured maple top is not easy at the moment - Forest fires, various bugs, Canada limiting supply of spruce/maple - All have an impact

The cost of the materials prob isn't a huge issue. The price of the manufacturing processes are probably the dominant part.

Guessing a few numbers, if the cost of the wood doubled from $10 to $20, the cost of the guitar only goes up by $10. The routing costs all still stay the same.

That’s not how the maths works in manufacturing though.

Everyone needs to add their cut, including the tax man, so an increase of $10 is going to be marked up at every stage it passes through a new set of hands and then taxed on top, so realistically you’re looking at more like a $40-$50 increase of the retail price for every $10 added to the cost of manufacture.

That’s an overly simplistic summary of course - the reality is the price of anything is generally unrelated to how much it costs to make - it’s all about getting what the market will bear.

crunchman · October 2021

Adey said:

guitars4you said:

Timber price increases are going to have a major impact on prices - I heard that even the availability of good mahogany and even figured maple top is not easy at the moment - Forest fires, various bugs, Canada limiting supply of spruce/maple - All have an impact

The cost of the materials prob isn't a huge issue. The price of the manufacturing processes are probably the dominant part.

Guessing a few numbers, if the cost of the wood doubled from $10 to $20, the cost of the guitar only goes up by $10. The routing costs all still stay the same.

The wood is likely to be a lot more than that.

On David Dyke's website:

2 or 3 piece mahogany 'AA' grade body blank is £95. That might be Custom Shop kind of level, but the 'A' grade body blank is still £63. One piece is even more expensive. There is also an asterisk to say lightweight blanks are 20% extra.

The lowest grade of flame maple top starts at £42, and you are looking at over £100 for a really good one. Even a plain maple top starts from £26.

Mahogany neck blank £53 (for 'A' grade, 'AA' even more)

Rosewood fingerboard blank £12 to £24 depending on price.

To buy the wood for a Les Paul style guitar, you are looking at £154 as a starting point for a plain top, and much more if you want a one piece and/or lightweight body wood, and even more for a flame top. If you want a lightweight one piece body, and a really pretty flame top in the 'AA' quality woods, you are looking at a bill of around £350.

Gibson will buy in bulk, and cut out the middle man, but they are still going to be spending a lot more than $20 on the wood that goes into a Les Paul.

You are also ignoring the markup at each stage. Even using your $10 increase in wood price, by the time the distributor adds another 30% markup, and the shop adds another 30% to that, it will add a lot more than $10 to the final price the buyer pays.

guitars4you · October 2021

Danielsguitars said:

guitars4you said:

Timber price increases are going to have a major impact on prices - I heard that even the availability of good mahogany and even figured maple top is not easy at the moment - Forest fires, various bugs, Canada limiting supply of spruce/maple - All have an impact

Finding good mahogany has been a problem for years now unless you're one of the big makers, I think Gibson have pretty much sawn up the Fiji mahogany and leaves us little makers scratching around

The problem doesn't seem as bad in the state's compared to us.

This problem will only get worse and one reason we're having to look at alternatives to the traditional, even Huber and suhr etc are looking elsewhere

also the 'hidden' costs - Nickel for instance

I heard from my PRS colleague that they are struggling to get enough good mahogany for the Core models

Plus as @chrisV mentions earlier the cost of containers - I spoke to a small importer the other day, who brings in nice LP cases - The cost now of shipping an empty case is around £30 - As he says that is £30 to ship fresh air - You still need to add the cost of goods + his profit just to get to a cost price - I've heard figures along the lines of a container was around £2K to hire for a delivery from say China - Now costs around 10K

RaymondLin · October 2021

richardhomer said:

I’ve just part-exchanged a 3 year old VW Golf and got 78% of what I paid for it.

Obviously I paid through the nose for the new one, though…

I checked AT for a car similar to mine of age and mileage. It seems to be the same price what i paid for mine 5 and a half years ago and I have put 50k miles on it.

Free motoring! (minus running cost).

crunchman · October 2021

guitars4you said:

... I've heard figures along the lines of a container was around £2K to hire for a delivery from say China - Now costs around 10K

Long term that will be good for the enviroment if they stay at that level. It will encourage stuff to be made locally rather than shipped from the other side of the world.

HandwrittenHero · October 2021

crunchman said:

guitars4you said:

... I've heard figures along the lines of a container was around £2K to hire for a delivery from say China - Now costs around 10K

Long term that will be good for the enviroment if they stay at that level. It will encourage stuff to be made locally rather than shipped from the other side of the world.

Although the problem is it’s still a rise in the cost of goods, so wages either need to rise to allow demand to rise or the supplier needs to adjust price upward to receive a bigger margin from those who can afford to buy in order to make their business profitable.

Assuming as well of course manufacturers can spring up overnight, since there’s an opportunity cost to learning a skilled trade (unless you just want cheap crap pushed out, that can be learnt and done fast)

Philly_Q · October 2021

HandwrittenHero said:
Although the problem is it’s still a rise in the cost of goods, so wages either need to rise to allow demand to rise or the supplier needs to adjust price upward to receive a bigger margin from those who can afford to buy in order to make their business profitable.

Assuming as well of course manufacturers can spring up overnight, since there’s an opportunity cost to learning a skilled trade (unless you just want cheap crap pushed out, that can be learnt and done fast)

Sounds like exactly the kind of thing we should be able to proudly achieve in Johnson's Britain.

hollywoodrox · October 2021

ICBM said:

Maybe we’ll all just have to get used to owning only one, like they did in the old days.

I don’t even own one yet , only had a tribute in 2017 but it wasn’t like a standard couldn’t bond with it . I’m hoping I’ll be able to get one I like in a year or two used or new doesn’t help with price rises though

Musicman20 · October 2021

dern said:

Don't buy them. There's plenty of choice.

That's my view. I just won't bother.

earwighoney · October 2021

I hate to say but I imagine many prices (not just Gibson) will rise.

Lots of factors in the post Covid world seem to be causing prices to rise, I fear inflation for many things will be with us for a while.

Danielsguitars · October 2021

earwighoney said:

I hate to say but I imagine many prices (not just Gibson) will rise.

Lots of factors in the post Covid world seem to be causing prices to rise, I fear inflation for many things will be with us for a while.

Call this inflation, try 15% in the early 90s and the housing crash, at least houses were affordable for 2 people afterwards now it's in outer space in the south

Howdy, Stranger!

Categories

In this Discussion

Become a Subscriber!

It’s the annual Gibson price increase thread

Comments

The yard is nothing but a fence, the sun just hurts my eyes...