Stainless steel frets - worth the cost or not?

Jtaylor · January 2022

Likewise, was great to meet you too!

DefaultM · January 2022

I would take any tech's negative opinion on stainless steel frets with a pinch of salt. Install them and he puts more wear on his tools and then has a customer who isn't bringing that guitar back for a level ever again.
I was getting mine done every 6 months, and then I haven't had to for years. That's a lot of lost money for the tech.
So you get them saying things like "ah well you know... I'll do it, but it might change the tone of your guitar and it wont be the same again... It's up to you".

Handsome_Chris · January 2022

I have stainless steel frets on my Vigiers, it's a good thing. I believe the tonal differences that stainless steel frets bring are only of concern if you do not play with other people., and/or do not have tone controls on your amp.

Saying that, my Vigier 'strat' into an Orange Rocker 30 clean channel (which is volume only, no tone) sounds beautiful. @ICBM , you're right,: it is a great amp.

sweepy · January 2022

Never been a fan of stainless steel frets, they just sound tizzy and cold, Standard frets should last years unless you have a Mexican Strat, they are made of cheese

FelineGuitars · January 2022

DefaultM said:

I would take any tech's negative opinion on stainless steel frets with a pinch of salt. Install them and he puts more wear on his tools and then has a customer who isn't bringing that guitar back for a level ever again.
I was getting mine done every 6 months, and then I haven't had to for years. That's a lot of lost money for the tech.
So you get them saying things like "ah well you know... I'll do it, but it might change the tone of your guitar and it wont be the same again... It's up to you".

I think that is a pretty dim view to take on guitar techs.

We are not all out to milk everyone out of as much money, as often as possible.

We are usually too busy doing as professional a job as possible and keeping people happy .

Do a great job, (even with stainless frets) and look after your customers and you'll have more eager customers calling in the near future.Most techs are savvy enough to work that way.

And stainless doesn't last forever, but it is a lot harder than nickel silver

In terms of costing on stainless jobs we simply charge for

1) the hours taken (and it may be slightly more with BIG stainless frets as you WILL spend more time fettling and shaping them)
2) the cost of the wire (fractionally more than nickel silver)
3) a small surcharge (like £20) for the wear and tear on the tools (cutters and tang nippers),

So there is a price difference but not a night and day difference in the price compared to nickel silver.

Here is a set of cutters that did suffer at the hands of a couple of stainless refrets

Boromedic · January 2022

sweepy said:

Never been a fan of stainless steel frets, they just sound tizzy and cold, Standard frets should last years unless you have a Mexican Strat, they are made of cheese

I found all Fender frets from Mexi to CS to be made of cheese tbh, so I made the move to SS. My Gibson LP standards frets have lasted better though, couple of fret dresses but doing well.

earwighoney · January 2022

FelineGuitars said:

I think that is a pretty dim view to take on guitar techs.
We are not all out to milk everyone out of as much money, as often as possible.
We are usually too busy doing as professional a job as possible and keeping people happy .
Do a great job, (even with stainless frets) and look after your customers and you'll have more eager customers calling in the near future.Most techs are savvy enough to work that way.

Thanks for the info Jon.

Just out of curiousity what are EVO Gold refrets like on the tools?

Have you ever come across Sintoms fret wire? I noticed they had a few types of fretwire I've never come across before, 25% Nickel, Brass and Bronze.

DefaultM · January 2022

When I wanted my first stainless refret (15 years ago?) and I rang round they all tried to put me off. Maybe it's a Yorkshire thing and they're all tight.

That guitar still hasn't got them because I had it done with Dunlop 6000 instead, so yeah nickel has lasted a long time, but they're gradually getting smaller after each level. When you factor in the cost for those levels I've easily gone past the SS cost and then I'll need another refret anyway.

If you play one and like the feel there's no reason not to. I always play 6000 size so for me a stainless 6000 just enhances what I wanted the guitar to feel like.
If someone is a vintage fret person maybe the slippiness is taking away from the feel they're going for, and it's not so good. That's not my thing so I don't know.

I've heard people mention a high pitched sound unplugged, but my tinnitus must be covering that. I don't hear anything like that at gig volume, and no one's ever come up to me after and said yeah great playing but can really hear the SS frets.

DefaultM · January 2022

FelineGuitars said:
DefaultM said:
I would take any tech's negative opinion on stainless steel frets with a pinch of salt. Install them and he puts more wear on his tools and then has a customer who isn't bringing that guitar back for a level ever again.
I was getting mine done every 6 months, and then I haven't had to for years. That's a lot of lost money for the tech.
So you get them saying things like "ah well you know... I'll do it, but it might change the tone of your guitar and it wont be the same again... It's up to you".
I think that is a pretty dim view to take on guitar techs.

Yeah it is, cos unfortunately most of them are crap. That's why whenever someone asks for a tech recommendation a lot of people say to post to you. They'd rather risk their guitar in the hands of a courier for you to do it, than take it to a local guy and risk him trying to sort it.

Majorscale · January 2022

I have both nickel and stainless fretted guitars in my collection. Personally I prefer the “warmth” of nickel frets more, they definitely suit more vintage leaning instruments better. Stainless has, to my ears, a more modern tone, definitely brighter. Now we are not talking a night and day difference and everyone’s tastes are different, but I prefer softer, warmer tones.

Stainless is *slightly* more slippery to play so that’s a plus for playability, but again don’t go in expecting an enormous difference, it’s more subtle than that. You can feel it though.

Stainless lasts longer too. Mind you I have been playing for 30 years and never had to get a guitar refretted so to me that’s no plus. YMMV

DLM · January 2022

Handsome_Chris said:

I believe the tonal differences that stainless steel frets bring are only of concern if you do not play with other people.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/4/44/Busted_cover_with_logo.jpg

Handsome_Chris · January 2022

sweepy said:

Never been a fan of stainless steel frets, they just sound tizzy and cold, Standard frets should last years unless you have a Mexican Strat, they are made of cheese

I am a fan of stainless steel frets, they just sound bouji and mellifluous.

FelineGuitars · January 2022

DefaultM said:

FelineGuitars said:
DefaultM said:
I would take any tech's negative opinion on stainless steel frets with a pinch of salt. Install them and he puts more wear on his tools and then has a customer who isn't bringing that guitar back for a level ever again.
I was getting mine done every 6 months, and then I haven't had to for years. That's a lot of lost money for the tech.
So you get them saying things like "ah well you know... I'll do it, but it might change the tone of your guitar and it wont be the same again... It's up to you".
I think that is a pretty dim view to take on guitar techs.
Yeah it is, cos unfortunately most of them are crap. That's why whenever someone asks for a tech recommendation a lot of people say to post to you. They'd rather risk their guitar in the hands of a courier for you to do it, than take it to a local guy and risk him trying to sort it.

OK - I'll take that as a compliment.

Maybe not everyone works the same way as we do.

SlopeSoarer · January 2022

FelineGuitars said:

DefaultM said:

I would take any tech's negative opinion on stainless steel frets with a pinch of salt. Install them and he puts more wear on his tools and then has a customer who isn't bringing that guitar back for a level ever again.
I was getting mine done every 6 months, and then I haven't had to for years. That's a lot of lost money for the tech.
So you get them saying things like "ah well you know... I'll do it, but it might change the tone of your guitar and it wont be the same again... It's up to you".

I think that is a pretty dim view to take on guitar techs.
We are not all out to milk everyone out of as much money, as often as possible.
We are usually too busy doing as professional a job as possible and keeping people happy .
Do a great job, (even with stainless frets) and look after your customers and you'll have more eager customers calling in the near future.Most techs are savvy enough to work that way.

And stainless doesn't last forever, but it is a lot harder than nickel silver

In terms of costing on stainless jobs we simply charge for
1) the hours taken (and it may be slightly more with BIG stainless frets as you WILL spend more time fettling and shaping them)
2) the cost of the wire (fractionally more than nickel silver)
3) a small surcharge (like £20) for the wear and tear on the tools (cutters and tang nippers),

So there is a price difference but not a night and day difference in the price compared to nickel silver.

Here is a set of cutters that did suffer at the hands of a couple of stainless refrets

Fuck me, how big were the frets? Looks more like they been pulling girders!

FelineGuitars · January 2022

earwighoney said:

FelineGuitars said:

I think that is a pretty dim view to take on guitar techs.
We are not all out to milk everyone out of as much money, as often as possible.
We are usually too busy doing as professional a job as possible and keeping people happy .
Do a great job, (even with stainless frets) and look after your customers and you'll have more eager customers calling in the near future.Most techs are savvy enough to work that way.

Thanks for the info Jon.

Just out of curiousity what are EVO Gold refrets like on the tools?

Have you ever come across Sintoms fret wire? I noticed they had a few types of fretwire I've never come across before, 25% Nickel, Brass and Bronze.

The EVO is hard on tools like the stainless is - it cuts by shearing rather than being malleable i have found

Musicman20 · January 2022

I have one guitar with SS frets - Musicman Stingray HH guitar (not a bass). It came stock with them.

My experience: super smooth, slick, very easy to play, and look fantastic!

Power-Beef · January 2022

Musicman20 said:

...

My experience: super smooth, slick, very easy to play, and look fantastic!

I find the same with them and am actually quite smitten.

earwighoney · January 2022

FelineGuitars said:

earwighoney said:

FelineGuitars said:

I think that is a pretty dim view to take on guitar techs.
We are not all out to milk everyone out of as much money, as often as possible.
We are usually too busy doing as professional a job as possible and keeping people happy .
Do a great job, (even with stainless frets) and look after your customers and you'll have more eager customers calling in the near future.Most techs are savvy enough to work that way.

Thanks for the info Jon.

Just out of curiousity what are EVO Gold refrets like on the tools?

Have you ever come across Sintoms fret wire? I noticed they had a few types of fretwire I've never come across before, 25% Nickel, Brass and Bronze.

The EVO is hard on tools like the stainless is - it cuts by shearing rather than being malleable i have found

Thanks for the info Jon.

Seziertisch · January 2022

DefaultM said:

When I wanted my first stainless refret (15 years ago?) and I rang round they all tried to put me off. Maybe it's a Yorkshire thing and they're all tight.

That guitar still hasn't got them because I had it done with Dunlop 6000 instead, so yeah nickel has lasted a long time, but they're gradually getting smaller after each level. When you factor in the cost for those levels I've easily gone past the SS cost and then I'll need another refret anyway.

If you play one and like the feel there's no reason not to. I always play 6000 size so for me a stainless 6000 just enhances what I wanted the guitar to feel like.
If someone is a vintage fret person maybe the slippiness is taking away from the feel they're going for, and it's not so good. That's not my thing so I don't know.

I've heard people mention a high pitched sound unplugged, but my tinnitus must be covering that. I don't hear anything like that at gig volume, and no one's ever come up to me after and said yeah great playing but can really hear the SS frets.

I think attitudes/expectations have changed.

Back when SS first were a thing, there were a lot of “experts” strongly against them - they completely ruin the sound of your instrument, they are bad for strings etc.

Now that people have had a chance to use them, the only disadvantage for the end user is a slight change in sound when played unplugged which may or may not be picked up by the pick ups

Mellish · January 2022

"Tizzy" slang for a sixpence? New one on me. People used to call a sixpence (6d) a "Tanner"

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Stainless steel frets - worth the cost or not?

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