Jazzers will obvs know this, but playing the notes from the altered, or superlocrian, scale while the V chord is playing gives you instant jazz. Especially when resolving to a major tonic (I) chord.
Example:
In a jazz blues in A, you’d be noodling around the blues box on the 5th fret; then when it goes to E, instead of playing notes from the E Dominant scale you’d want to play
E altered (aka
E superlocrian).
It’s called the altered scale because it has the same notes as in E major, but every note (apart from the E itself) is lower by one semitone. E F G Ab Bb C D E. Instead of E F# G# A B C# D# E.
(The scale is also called E superlocrian and is the 7th mode of melodic minor ascending. In this case F melodic minor - F G Ab Bb C D E F - but starting and ending on the E.)
Characteristics of this sound:
the E: obviously it has the root note of the V chord. It’s jazz not just mistakes.
the F: a minor 2nd - juicier than the major 2nd of normal dominant.
The G and Ab: you get a minor and a major 3rd. Like in the hendrix chord. Nice.
The Bb: oooo there’s no perfect 4th and no perfect 5th - you get the one in between. Causes extra tension and release when you resolve to the A tonic chord.
The C: oooo it’s got a minor 6th not a major 6th like in normal dominant. That’s the minor 3rd of the Tonic, so when it resolves to the A chord, you get a nice movement.
The D - that’s the normal b7 you get in normal dominant.
Nice eh?
There’s a quick cheat for accessing it on the guitar because the notes are a little alien. What you do is, you’re on fret 5 playing minor penta over the A chord and D chord. When the E chord arrives, you slip up a fret on the B string, so the following frets:
B string: 5 (slip up) 6 8 9 8 6 (slip down) 5
then G string: 7 5
D string: 8 6 5
A string: 8 7 5
E string: 8 6 4
and on the top E it’s 6 8 10.
No idea why I’m mentioning this but it might open up a whole new palette of colours for you
Roland said: Scales are primarily a tool for categorising knowledge, not a rule for what can or cannot be played.
Supportact said: [my style is] probably more an accumulation of limitations and bad habits than a 'style'.
Comments
Supportact said: [my style is] probably more an accumulation of limitations and bad habits than a 'style'.
Supportact said: [my style is] probably more an accumulation of limitations and bad habits than a 'style'.
I think you have to approach these melodically when it comes to the application.
Ripping up an altered scale at Petrucci speeds is just pointless because it becomes a wash of notes.
Look at what Robben Ford does with a few notes well placed.
It is mind bogglingly good.
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OK firstly I apologise to any Theory Wizards who know all of this and for any wrong nomenclature..
Some stuff is maybe obvious,but it leads to other things..
Hopefully everything is understandable and doesn't come across as a Jumble..
The way I think..The Lydian Dominant is a Tritone away from the Super Locrian..
So if you use Lydian Dominant a Semitone above the 1 chord,you get an inversion of the Scale that is easy to locate....
It gets to the point you can hear when you need to use it,,it is such a potent recognisable sound....
If you look at a C7 shaped E7 root at the 7th fret,
This could be a V Dominant Chord in an A Minor Blues..
If you change the root from E to B flat but keeping the rest of the chord the same,yes change fingers..
You get a B flat 7 Flat 5 chord..You can use that as a substitute for the E7..
Flat II instead of V..Also known as a Sub V....I hear this used in Jazz a fair bit..
There is the Home Chord for reference for your Lydian Dominant.. B Flat..
There are lots of other little moves I have discovered you can use to change the sound of a 12 Bar,,,but they are not Super Locrian / Lydian Dominant..
If you use a Minor 6 Chord as the One Chord,play Melodic Minor On That..
Use a Minor 6 Chord as the IV chord..Use the Harmonic Minor of the 1 Chord..In the Harmonic Minor..has various
Or the idea stripped bare with no backing using the Super Locrian / Altered..
Play Root Melodic Minor as the I Chord.. ....A Melodic Minor
Play Root Harmonic Minor as the IV Chord.......A Harmonic Minor..
Play Semitone up Lydian Dominant as the V chord........B Flat Lydian Dominant..
Just play the Scales not the Chords.....Can you hear the chords that should be there..
It sounds like a very 1940's and later.. Jazz Blues..
It really has that Darker sound..
So much pivots of the fact that if you turn the V chord in a Minor Blues to a Major by sharpening the chords third..,,that the flatted seventh becomes a Major Seventh of the root scale,,Instead of a Minor Scale you now have Harmonic Minor..
This Means on the V 7 chord you are playing Phrygian Dominant..Also Called Phrygian Spanish in some books etc....
Now off that major 7th note you can play Diminished 7th and Augmented Arpeggios..
You can also of course play E7 sharp fifth arpeggios on the V chord..
These ideas seem to repeat in music so much..You get to the point you instantly hear / recognise what is going on
The Harmonic Minor Also gives you use of the Flatted VI chord..T
his can be a Minor 6 Chord..A Major Sixth also a Major 7th etc.
.I guess also a Major 7 sharp 11..Like the McGeoch Christine Chord..
Also like a movable Min 6/9 with no root etc..Top of a root 6 So many inversions..It's one of those shapes.. F maj 7 sharp 11..D min 6 / 9 ..G 13.. It's just a different root note..
I would not call myself a Jazz musician,but I have found out how to use a lot of Jazz type things in my Blues Playing..
I love Monk,Miles,Coltrane etc..I listen to that stuff for pleasure at home..Big band stuff too,for enjoyment,not study,but it seeps in through osmosis..
I have a hard time with pure scales on the fretboard. I keep track of where I am in a song and on the fretboard if I can think in terms of tonal relationships. In other words, chords.
(It also definitely helps to remember that E superlocrian is a function of F melodic minor, as those basic chords are easy enough to remember.)
So I find it helpful to think less about the scale of notes and more about the triad possibilities that we already know. I haven’t had the chance to mess with it yet, but I will drone an E7 chord (or loop a slow progression with E7 in it) and play with some voice leading that involves the various chords of E superlocrian:
E half diminished (maj6)
F minor (maj7) (maj6)
G minor 7 (maj6)
Ab7 (maj6) *edit augmented*
Bb7 (maj6)
C7 (b6)
D half diminished (b6)
And here are analogous chords of A Ionian:
E7
F# minor
G# half diminished
Amaj7
Bmin7
C#min7
Dmaj7
So, I will practice picking different target notes from A Ionian and see how the different triads from E superlocrian affect the sequence of tension-to-resolution. I guess my target notes would be A, C#, B and/or G# (are there tritone possibilities in there? I have a hard time keeping track of those.)
Thanks for this thread, Viz. You always bring things to light. Literally a guru. I hope I’m not casting any shadows over it.
Supportact said: [my style is] probably more an accumulation of limitations and bad habits than a 'style'.
Supportact said: [my style is] probably more an accumulation of limitations and bad habits than a 'style'.
So in our example, we’re in A, and we’re looking for a good E chord to play in order to resolve to the A. The A is the tonic, the E is the dominant, and we’re looking to play a dominant-tonic cadence, aka V-I cadence, aka perfect cadence. And we’re hunting for juicy dominant chords.
Next we have four main altered E chords which are nice and spicy: Like Dom7, they each have the 1,3 and 7, the E, G#, D, but other notes are brought in to create more tension. These notes are all variations of the 2 (or 9) and the 5. We can have:
E7 b5 b9
E7 b5 #9
E7 #5 b9
E7 #5 #9
Or we can miss out one of the notes, like:
E7 #9 (the Hendrix chord)
E7 b9 (dunno its name but I call it dim7 above dom)
E7 #9 (Hendrix chord): 07678x. We all know and love this one. It also happens to sound cool as a tonic chord, but remember we’re using it as a dominant chord to resolve to an A. It has that juxtaposition of a major 3rd and a minor 3rd. I call it an E7 b10 for that reason, and also because it makes people rather cross.
E7 b9: 07676x. Love this one. Soft and tragic. It’s a blessed relief when it resolves to the A major. It’s also very common in an A minor piece. When you include the 5th it’s actually F(dim7) sitting on an E, hence why I call it dim7 above dom. Gorgeous.
And the fuller chords: (I’m swapping the 9 and 5 in my naming convention because of the order they’re stacked on the guitar. And also because the 9 is really a 2).
E7 b9 b5: 076766 (barring the 6th fret).
E7 #9 b5. Not particularly common. Probably best played as 076786 but I don’t play it much if at all
E7 b9 #5. 076768. Like the E7b9 above, this is very gorgeous and has the added impact of a minor 6th, which is fantastic. Very similar to Phrygian Dominant.
That all seems pretty complicated but you get used to them. The sounds are very specific:
The b5 is the stilton / walnut / onion marmalade tritone and tastes fetid and gnarly. Love it.
And when you combine them you get a fusion of those flavours.
Supportact said: [my style is] probably more an accumulation of limitations and bad habits than a 'style'.
Do watch this, it’s mandatory viewing!
Supportact said: [my style is] probably more an accumulation of limitations and bad habits than a 'style'.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5GeuVZ2oWb4
Supportact said: [my style is] probably more an accumulation of limitations and bad habits than a 'style'.