Amp volume curiosity

beed84 · October 2014

A friend of mine currently owns a Two-Rock Studio Pro 35 combo and running it through a 2 x 12 cab. He mentioned to me the other day that he's having "amp issues" during rehershals and has to crank the amp all the way because the drummer is too loud. I asked if he had mike'd the amp and turned it up it via the pa. He said he already had and that he was surprised how far he had to crank the pa too. Because of this he's thinking of parting ways with the Two-Rock for something with more oomph, regarding 50 watts won't be enough and considering a 100w head instead, which could possibly be of lower quality/cheaper than the two rock.

I'm not doubting my mate as he's a very accomplished musician; however, I'm genuinely shocked as I believe 35 watts of said amp AND pa should be ample enough, especially in a rehearsal setting. I could be wrong, though. What's everyones views on this matter? I'm curious.

ICBM · October 2014

Does he have the amp on the floor?

If it's at waist height or more and pointing at you there is no way you will not hear a cranked 35W valve amp through a 2x12" over any drummer. Tone and clean headroom might possibly be an issue but volume won't be.

I once played with a drummer who was insanely loud, the loudest by far I've ever heard - literally painful to be in the room with him without ear plugs - and a Marshall Bluesbreaker (30W 2x12") was loud enough, but not clean. A Fender Concert (60W 1x12") was enough to maintain clean headroom.

Voxman · October 2014

Very often it's not 'volume' that's the problem but definition and punch to cut through the mix. I recommend he tries a BBE Sonic Stomp Maximiser (ideally in the FX loop).

See my 25/9 post here (includes explanation & video demos)

http://thefretboard.co.uk/discussion/24080/

ecc83 · October 2014

Just a fort!

I notice the amp has a bias pot in "easy reach". Might someone have had a fiddle?

But otherwise I agree. Two 6L6s in fixed bias from any competently designed amp should kill.

Dave.

timmysoft · October 2014

The two rocks I tried were definitely nit built for volume, my 30w laney destroyed them for volume.

spacecadet · October 2014

Don't sell the Two Rock. Sack the drummer.

ThePrettyDamned · October 2014

timmysoft;379415" said:
The two rocks I tried were definitely nit built for volume, my 30w laney destroyed them for volume.

This is my experience with the one two rock I played, 50 watts but not massively loud. It had a quality to the sound that seemed very full, though, like it could fill a room.

richardhomer · October 2014

I read a review in Guitarist by Neville Marten of one of the 22 watt models, where he said it would be loud enough to gig with.

I tried one and rapidly came to the conclusion that it was nowhere near gig-worthy.

If you want mildly driven or very driven sounds, you can get away with lower output amps but clean headroom takes a lot of watts.

I'd rather turn down an amp which is capable of too much volume than struggle to coax enough level out of a lower powered one. 'Big' output stages don't just give volume - they also give the sound 'authority' - they sound 'bigger', even when turned down.

koss59 · October 2014

I had a 35 watt Two Rock for a while, it had nowhere near enough clean head room for a loud band but should be plenty for rehearsing etc.....like someone else said, sack the drummer

strtdv · October 2014

Might just be the Two-Rock then by the sounds of it. I've no problems keeping up with a drummer with my 20 watt Laney through a 2x12, and he broke sticks trying to keep up with my Orange 50 watt 2x12.

Grunfeld · October 2014

ICBM said:

...Tone and clean headroom might possibly be an issue but volume won't be.

I once played with a drummer who was insanely loud, the loudest by far I've ever heard...

Our last drummer was one of those -- not just "loud" but "mental". And everything else had to be cranked so loud that you couldn't hear anything -- after a short while it was like white noise, even with earplugs in. There were other issues with this guy but in the end it was the volume which was a major factor in sacking him.

So, if @beed84 has one of those rowdy b*stards then unless he's on the modern Hard Rock scene, consider sacking the drummer. He'll lose you audiences and work.

cosmiccarrot · October 2014

When your mate said he has 'amp issues' I take it he's not had a problem using that amp with his band before? or has he just bought the amp? doesn't make sense other than a fault with the amp?

Fiftyshadesofjay · October 2014

What 2x12 cab is he using? Some cabs/speakers can be much louder than others.

Greenbacks are much quieter at the same amp volume compared to Vintage 30's for example.

ICBM · October 2014

If the 35W Two Rock is not as loud as a 20W Laney, there's something wrong with it.

Danny1969 · October 2014

In fairness to drummers the very good ones as in session quality tend to hit the kick and snare very hard,and the hat and cymbals not so much, that's what makes em great session recording drummers but live a loud great drummer can be a pain. To me it sounds like the amp isn't quite right as it should be louder that that. In terms of PA and mic'ng up well that needs a bit of thought as mic'ing up an amp that's close to a loud drummer with your standard sm57 is basically mic'ing up the drums as well! Look at the PFL spill from the drums your be amazed how strong the spill signal is unless your take steps to minimize it, like a barrier between the amp and drums or a plexi shield. Or a tighter mic like a Senn E906

I got 3 gigs this week, 2 with a 5 watt Blackstar and one with a 200 watt Marshall EL34 100\100. The volume behind me will be the same from both rigs. I don't struggle to hear the little BS even with a hard hitting drummer. It makes me wonder on here if some of the problems more to do with people trying to fight volume with volume, not mic'ing up and basically damaging their hearing.

Gassage · October 2014

A number of things here- speaker efficiency is key- it really varies a lot and has nothing to do with rating. The difference between 1 x 12 and 2x12 of same amp is 3 DB only- enough to hear though. But speaker sensitivity and amp efficiency, 2 things that we take for granted, are the keys to you question

hotpickups · October 2014

I used to have a very loud drummer. It cost us a load of gigs cos we were too loud. Also if he's loud all the time there is nowhere to go sonically. Get another drummer or tell him to tone it down. 35 watts is plenty loud enough IMO

Cirrus · October 2014

Sure there is. It's called Louder.

ICBM · October 2014

Cirrus said:

Sure there is. It's called Louder.

That drummer I used to play with did actually have a wide volume range. He wasn't just a senseless basher, in fact he was very good both technically and dynamically.

The only problem is that it was from deafening to apocalyptic.

beed84 · October 2014

Thanks for all the responses, guys. I shall feed it all back to him soon. There isn't anything wrong with the amp technically, he's just having to turn it up ALL they way, which is crazy. Good points re the drummer. I am aware that they're due to gig soon so I'll pass comment on that maybe his drummer might have to pipe down a bit. A plexi shield could be a very good port of call where mic'ing up is concerned, and I'll direct him to a BBE SS pedal - the demo was quite convincing. Overall, I don't think he needs to change amps, more to do with set-up and band members. If I ever bought a two-rock 35 and realised I couldn't gig with it, I'd honestly think WTF!

timmysoft · October 2014

ICBM said:

If the 35W Two Rock is not as loud as a 20W Laney, there's something wrong with it.

My 20w lionheart through a 1936 cab used to devastate the other guitarist in my old band. He had the 100w jet city hdm and it struggled to live with the little laney,

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