Hotter Pickups for The Green Green Gretsch of home....

KevS · July 26

I have raised my Blacktops right up etc..
They don't sound bad,,they don't suit the guitar I feel..They are too civilised..It's like I want them to just have "More"..
It's like they are on about 8 and I want 10..I won't say 11..Sorry I just did,,Groan..
My 2 tone Green Gretsch Electromatic G 5420 T is one of those guitars you just want to play the living crap out of..
.It really has that play me,,play me hard feel..I've really bonded with it..I have quite short fingers..The 24.6 scale opens up what I can do..

I find the New Style Black Tops and the older ones lacking treble sizzle..

Gretsch Purists may get in a tizzy..I need something with ruder manners..I know original fIltertrons were quite low output..
Hopefully not something I have to take a mortgage out to buy either..

I would like the neck pickup to be Jazzier and have a bit more bass,,although clean tron bass rather than fat PAF bass.Although at would be better than just now..,,Out of any of my guitar,,this one I burst into the Jazz things on it..,,
The bridge to introduce a bit more muscle into the Rockabilly,,
but still be able to deliver Indie Jangle with a bit of sizzle on top,,all in a Gretsch way of course..
I have guitars with the PAF thing..

The Pots it came with seem to have an uneven range on them too..I know a Treble bleed is supposed to be good on the master..
I am open to push pulls on the pots too if they can add useful usable variation..

A Duane Eddy on Steroids/ Beatles / Malcolm Young switch...lol..
I know that one isn't really possible..

I love this guitar,,it plays so great with Gauge 11's on it..I wish it sounded as good as it plays..
<a href="https://imgur.com/wUms9Ae"><img src="https://i.imgur.com/wUms9Ae.jpg" title="source: imgur.com" /></a>

AK99 · July 26

Can't help on the question itself I'm afraid - but full marks for the thread title that man

ICBM · July 26

Just get proper Filtertrons - they’re not low output, they’re about the same as a PAF but much clearer and less middy… because they have a magnet roughly twice the size, which counteracts the ‘low’ winding. The neck pickup will do jazzy bass, and the bridge will do the twangy bite.

It might be worth changing the bridge too, if it has the tune-o-matic type - a bar bridge or a Gretsch ‘space control’ type will sound better.

Cirrus · July 26

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KevS · July 26

ICBM said:

Just get proper Filtertrons - they’re not low output, they’re about the same as a PAF but much clearer and less middy… because they have a magnet roughly twice the size, which counteracts the ‘low’ winding. The neck pickup will do jazzy bass, and the bridge will do the twangy bite.

It might be worth changing the bridge too, if it has the tune-o-matic type - a bar bridge or a Gretsch ‘space control’ type will sound better.

Thanks..No Bridge pickups at Thomann..I can have a good look around though..

Are we talking about these though...? HS Filtertrons https://www.thomann.de/gb/gretsch_filtertron_hs_neck.htm

Do you know if they will fit the Electromatic holes and pickup surrounds..?

I'm taking it CTS 500 K pots and 220 Microfarad Caps are what should be used..?

When you say Space Control,do you mean The Melita Bridge..?
Does it jag into your hand,,or is it smooth feeling..?
I've never played a guitar with one..

Not so sure about then Bar Bridge for intonation..
Then again a metal bar might add sustain and bite like a Les Paul Junior..
Juniors sound great..HMMM !! I think 3 saddle Teles sound way better too..
More metal there..Less small parts to rattle..Mind you I lock the screws with clear nail varnish..
Good for Tele and Les Paul Jack Plugs too...
Too much info probably,,plus saying what you already know..

Clear nail varnish is useful stuff folks..

Sorry for asking so many questions...I always did ask too many questions..lol

ICBM · July 26

KevS said:

Are we talking about these though...? HS Filtertrons https://www.thomann.de/gb/gretsch_filtertron_hs_neck.htm

Yes, although there are other options... eg TV Jones - much more expensive, but do a slightly hotter bridge pickup as well.

KevS said:

Do you know if they will fit the Electromatic holes and pickup surrounds..?

I think so! They look the same - I've never actually tried it. Even if a little work is required, it's worth it. I fitted a set to a different Gretsch a while ago which needed quite a lot of work, but the difference was still totally worthwhile.

KevS said:

I'm taking it CTS 500 K pots and 220 Microfarad Caps are what should be used..?

No need to change what's there. The treble-pass cap on the master volume might be worth doing though.

KevS said:

When you say Space Control,do you mean The Melita Bridge..?

No, Space Control - the one with the rotary saddles on the threaded bar.

KevS said:

Not so sure about then Bar Bridge for intonation..

Close enough for rock'n'roll

.

OilCityPickups · July 27

ICBM said:

Just get proper Filtertrons - they’re not low output, they’re about the same as a PAF but much clearer and less middy… because they have a magnet roughly twice the size, which counteracts the ‘low’ winding. The neck pickup will do jazzy bass, and the bridge will do the twangy bite.

It might be worth changing the bridge too, if it has the tune-o-matic type - a bar bridge or a Gretsch ‘space control’ type will sound better.

Absolutely this ....

And part of the reason I got rid of the Black Tops in my 5420 was the fact they were so gutless! I replaced with Dynasonics ... but same cause.

Doulin · July 27

Do you also need new plastic surrounds? IIRC the blacktops have 4 screws to raise and lower height and the more traditional filtertrons have a different system. I'll check a little later.

I have a 6120jr2 with filters and my wife a g5565 with broadtron blacktops and my dad a lovely pink jet with black top filters! So I am hoping I can offer some help here.
I agree the broadtrons sound very different to my 6120. They're much closer to PAF territory in my book but still very clear. Personally I think they sound mint actually especially on the neck through her set up but through my vox maybe less so. But I would go as far to say it sounds jazzier to me than the filtertrons. Just its own thing rather than that gretsch thing.

The blacktop filters on jet are lovely sounding things. They do almost everything the 6120 does. But my 6120 (obviously biased because this one is mine) feels it has a little more than the blacktops. But that maybe me. Could try and snag some blacktop filters cheap?

(note on my gretsch purist views - as much as i love fingerpicking the gretsch clean, i also love smashing fuzz boxes in front of it! Much more versatile than people say in my book!)

Cirrus · July 27

OK now I'm sober:

TL:DR: Get a pair of HS Filtertrons.

I still think ceramic HS filtertrons from the '90s are the absolute best because they somehow manage to be thick, clear, jangly and have a big middy punch all at the same time. And like all decent gretsch style pickups, they do the great Jekyll and Hyde thing - rich and characterful cleans, and mean, mean aggressive snarl with distortion. But they don't come up that much so this is more of a "look out for..." suggestion.

Next best I really think are the stock HS Filtertrons, they do the same thing but with more compression, softer, less tight bottom end, and a little mid shift. You'll really notice the switch from blacktops - they'll give you MORE, and they are not at all expensive, even to buy new. Probably the last good deal in main brand stock pickups, you can get a pair for less than a 2nd hand set of Gibson humbuckers.

I love TV jones, But I think of them as more refined and then as they get hotter with the classic plus etc they push into PAF territory with their mids and compression. For attitude and character I'd rather have HS Filters than TV Classics.

I Did LOVE the Brian Setzer TV sig Filters, but In my hollow body 5422 the low mids were too much - I had to put them in a solid body electromatic to get the goods. The 5420 has even more low mid body resonance than that, so I could see them being too middy.

Doulin · July 27

3 screws in the Black top Broadtron!
This is a good source of what you need. Or talk with someone who has done it
https://tvjones.com/pickup-replacements

Seziertisch · July 27

Could you just “upgrade” a set of regular Filtertrons with a ceramic magnet?

Cirrus · July 27

Oh yeah, mounting!

Right, yeah. So the blacktops do have 3 screws. HS filtertrons - you'll need to use metal cutters to remove the extra width baseplate ears. And then you'll need a way to mount it on a pickup ring.

Two options:

1; a simple metal bar. Pickup screws into bar, bar wider than pickup becomes the ears. Here's one;

https://www.philadelphialuthiertools.com/pickup-making-parts/filtertron-parts/filtertron-humbucker-adapter-plate/

And another;

https://www.guitarfetish.com/GFTron-Adapter-Plate-with-Screw-CHROME_p_33866.html

But be warned - sometimes they're drilled for a slightly different width of mounting screw - I had to file away some baseplate on HS filtertrons to make it fit.

2: TV jones clip system, which are basically two ears that screw on to the pickups. Surprisingly hard to get hold of without buying TV pickups.

And in both cases, you'll need one of these per pickup:

https://www.thomann.de/gb/tv_jones_dual_screw_mount_adaptor.htm?glp=1&gad_source=1&gclid=Cj0KCQjwtZK1BhDuARIsAAy2VzvCiiuQy_eS6kHTOfIgUADwfI9uA0BomXpITWf4jOgTUykYJl2J_sIaAgLoEALw_wcB

octatonic · July 27

ICBM said:

Just get proper Filtertrons - they’re not low output, they’re about the same as a PAF but much clearer and less middy… because they have a magnet roughly twice the size, which counteracts the ‘low’ winding. The neck pickup will do jazzy bass, and the bridge will do the twangy bite.

This.

If you really need more grunt then Setzer signature TV Jones are worth a look.

TheMarlin · July 27

Supertrons are awesome.

KevS · July 27

Cirrus said:

Oh yeah, mounting!

Right, yeah. So the blacktops do have 3 screws. HS filtertrons - you'll need to use metal cutters to remove the extra width baseplate ears. And then you'll need a way to mount it on a pickup ring.

Two options:

1; a simple metal bar. Pickup screws into bar, bar wider than pickup becomes the ears. Here's one;

https://www.philadelphialuthiertools.com/pickup-making-parts/filtertron-parts/filtertron-humbucker-adapter-plate/

And another;

https://www.guitarfetish.com/GFTron-Adapter-Plate-with-Screw-CHROME_p_33866.html

But be warned - sometimes they're drilled for a slightly different width of mounting screw - I had to file away some baseplate on HS filtertrons to make it fit.

2: TV jones clip system, which are basically two ears that screw on to the pickups. Surprisingly hard to get hold of without buying TV pickups.

And in both cases, you'll need one of these per pickup:

https://www.thomann.de/gb/tv_jones_dual_screw_mount_adaptor.htm?glp=1&gad_source=1&gclid=Cj0KCQjwtZK1BhDuARIsAAy2VzvCiiuQy_eS6kHTOfIgUADwfI9uA0BomXpITWf4jOgTUykYJl2J_sIaAgLoEALw_wcB

Thanks so much for your detailed advice...I have a set of HS Filters on the way...

OOPS,,now I am looking at Guitar Fetish GF Tron pickups...

You can buy mounting rings too..

Not sure of import duty though,,or delivery time..

KevS · July 27

OilCityPickups said:

ICBM said:

Just get proper Filtertrons - they’re not low output, they’re about the same as a PAF but much clearer and less middy… because they have a magnet roughly twice the size, which counteracts the ‘low’ winding. The neck pickup will do jazzy bass, and the bridge will do the twangy bite.

It might be worth changing the bridge too, if it has the tune-o-matic type - a bar bridge or a Gretsch ‘space control’ type will sound better.

Absolutely this ....

And part of the reason I got rid of the Black Tops in my 5420 was the fact they were so gutless! I replaced with Dynasonics ... but same cause.

I considered Dynasonics too....I'm not sure they are drop in size plus you rewound yours..
The HS Filtertrons seemed less hassle..
I even thought,what is I changed my mind...
I could move my HS trons to my 5422 which I do really like,,just not as much as the Green Green Gretsch..

KevS · July 27

TheMarlin said:

Supertrons are awesome.

I've already ordered HS Trons,but will investigate Supertrons.. Thanks..

OilCityPickups · July 28

KevS said:

OilCityPickups said:

ICBM said:

Just get proper Filtertrons - they’re not low output, they’re about the same as a PAF but much clearer and less middy… because they have a magnet roughly twice the size, which counteracts the ‘low’ winding. The neck pickup will do jazzy bass, and the bridge will do the twangy bite.

It might be worth changing the bridge too, if it has the tune-o-matic type - a bar bridge or a Gretsch ‘space control’ type will sound better.

Absolutely this ....

And part of the reason I got rid of the Black Tops in my 5420 was the fact they were so gutless! I replaced with Dynasonics ... but same cause.

I considered Dynasonics too....I'm not sure they are drop in size plus you rewound yours..
The HS Filtertrons seemed less hassle..
I even thought,what is I changed my mind...
I could move my HS trons to my 5422 which I do really like,,just not as much as the Green Green Gretsch..

Deffo somthing about a 5420 ... mine gets the hell played out of it!
The Dynasonics were not an easy swap as I had to use custom cut risers ... but these are available now to anyone who is nuts like me and want's to fit genuine Dynasonics. It's much easier to fit TV Jones Dynasonics, however they are not quite as high output as my genuine 1953 pair that are in my Tele. I rewound the new Gretsch ones to be very similar to the old ones ... but I must admit the 53 ones sound better ... and may find their way into my 5420 in the end.

KevS · July 30

Realised from keeping doing research that I needed to get pickup risers..I got them in a place in the UK that also does TV Jones Pickups..

So here are my plans,,first obviously pay a guitar tech to do the pickup swap..
Also I have to say the pots don't seem to have any graduation the brightness just suddenly changes to mud..

I think replacement would make it a much better guitar...I will check to see if they are solid or split shaft..
Are these the correct length of shaft for a hollow Gretsch..?
https://northwestguitars.co.uk/collections/potentiometers/products/cts-500k-split-shaft-potentiometer

I'm taking it the pots are .22 microfarad ?

Oh Handy for the master volume.. https://northwestguitars.co.uk/collections/capacitors/products/sprague-sprague-orange-drop-treble-bleed-kit

While he is in there,is this OK for the Switch..? I've got a spare chrome Switchcraft fit switch tip somewhere..
https://northwestguitars.co.uk/collections/switches/products/switchcraft-short-toggle-switch-ep-4367?_pos=1&_fid=e1a11ebd7&_ss=c

I'm taking it the wiring is OK,or would there be any benefit upgrading it..?
No calling me stupid here,,a genuine query..It could be really Guff..
Is this much better wire..?
https://northwestguitars.co.uk/collections/wire-shielding/products/gavitt-vintage-braided-shield-hookup-push-back-wire-4-gibson-guitar-pickup

OK,so after the Guitar is done..I will experiment with pickup height big time..

After doing this if I feel I need a more powerful bridge pickup...
I will get the TV Jones Classic Plus for the Bridge position of the Green Green Gretsch..

I may end up using the Bridge HS Filtertron for the neck Position on the Walnut Whippersnapper..
Then use another TV Jones Classic Plus in the Bridge..The Whippersnapper has gold hardware,but it often comes off and looks a dull nickel as it ages anyway,,so I'm not really bothered ab0ut using silver coloured pickups.....The output difference between HS Filtertron Bridge and neck isn't that much compared to the Classic plus,,so lower the HS F tron a little and all should be fine..

I may not end up having to replace the Bridge F tron of course..

I just wish I had thought to order 4 mounting bars instead of 2 from Guitar Fetish USA..
You can't change the past though...

OilCityPickups · July 30

KevS said:

I'm taking it the wiring is OK,or would there be any benefit upgrading it..?
No calling me stupid here,,a genuine query..It could be really Guff..
Is this much better wire..?
https://northwestguitars.co.uk/collections/wire-shielding/products/gavitt-vintage-braided-shield-hookup-push-back-wire-4-gibson-guitar-pickup

We sell the same wire ... and it's great but no better than what's already in your Gretsch.

Personally if you are going to do anything with your harness I'd replace the selector switch ... mine went dodgy very quickly.

KevS · July 30

OilCityPickups said:

KevS said:

I'm taking it the wiring is OK,or would there be any benefit upgrading it..?
No calling me stupid here,,a genuine query..It could be really Guff..
Is this much better wire..?
https://northwestguitars.co.uk/collections/wire-shielding/products/gavitt-vintage-braided-shield-hookup-push-back-wire-4-gibson-guitar-pickup

We sell the same wire ... and it's great but no better than what's already in your Gretsch.

Personally if you are going to do anything with your harness I'd replace the selector switch ... mine went dodgy very quickly.

That happens to any Chinese or even Korean Guitars I buy..I found Epiphone switches were bad for channels disappearing,,the reappearing a fortnight later etc..A bad Switch is a pain in the Arse..

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