3 notes per string vs CAGED

Gru · December 2014

Just wondering what people's thoughts and views are on these two methods.

I am sure they both have there place, but I receive occasional emails from Tom Hess and take on board any advice where I can as it all seems to help. This morning I got one about the caged technique and found some of the points made quite valid (certainly as a beginner)

If I am honest, after only really playing for 18 months, I had never heard of this three note per string technique?

randomhandclaps · December 2014

My personal opinion and that based on teaching is that the CAGED system gets people up and running faster for obvious reasons - 2 less shapes and limited area to cover. Also plenty of guitar icon have survived (either knowingly or not) on using the CAGED system or even less boxed positions.

The main downside to the CAGED system is you can literally end up boxed in and dependent on singular positions. This is easily breakable if you deliberately set about doing so and focus on transition between shapes.

We were forced to learn both variants and in an perfect world (baring in mind we were practicing at least 8 hours a day) then that would be the 'ideal' solution as I see it. Unfortunately for most people time is a limit and the more easily recognisable shapes and more instantly accessible shape of the CAGED system make it the preferable choice for most.

Another advantage of understanding the CAGED system is that as you progress is that in non-diatonic chordal progressions it is clearly far easier to see and highlight chord shapes.

bloodandtears · December 2014

3 notes per string will help you link between the caged positions

carlos · December 2014

Learn both.

They're all the same shapes anyway if you overlay them. Also, knowing both systems will highlight all the intervals on the fretboard, e.g. how a major 3rd is 4 frets away on the same string but just one fret away if you go down a string, etc.

mike_l · December 2014

3NPS is (IMO) a better tool, once you've got CAGED under your belt.

CAGED is great for seeing how a chord/scale are interlinked, and as RHC said, for a lot of players is enough to cover all their playing needs.

3NPS links the different shapes together and covers the missed bits between them.

if any of that makes sense.......

Phil_aka_Pip · December 2014

I learned 3NPS before I heard of CAGED. Still don't think in terms of CAGED.

frankus · December 2014

Most CAGED positions have 3NPS. Most CAGED positions are from the 3NPS.

As someone said learn them both... learn as many scale patterns as you need until you've got all the finger placements in your hands and know all the notes under your fingers... by then the individual patterns will be a dim memory.

What I would say is that CAGED links up to chords more, by virtue of spanning across the neck where much of the more spanning 3NPS patterns confuse that by removing the one-to-one mapping.

Roland · December 2014

It's a bit like walking and running, or breast stoke and crawl: they both have their place

sweepy · December 2014

Maybe its all the Holdsworth I listened to when I started playing but 2 and 3nps seems cramped as I try and use 4nps wherever possible

viz · December 2014

I'm pretty sure I don't do either method, maybe because I've never really learned to play properly and to my shame don't know how to play any scales correctly, so I tend to slide around and snatch at notes depending on what note I want to hear at any one time. I guess sometimes it's 3nps, sometimes 4, sometimes 1 or the string is skipped completely. Most often though it's jumps from one fret to another on the same string with the same finger. I definitely have habits and find myself in the same old little runs; maybe leaning caged and 3nps would help me break out of them.

Gru · December 2014

Could someone explain to me what the 3 note per string for the e minor pentotonic would be?

Basically, before I try to get too clever with different keys, I want to get Em under my belt, but would like to expand with this 3nps idea.

Gru · December 2014

I am looking at a picture for 3nps for e minor which I assume is at the 12th fret and the shape is the same as if I was playing the caged shape at the 12th?

I feel like I'm missing something?

JAYJO · December 2014

I would think you would be better starting with Gmajor/Eminor.
Maybe the pentatonic having less notes would involve larger stretches.
imo. Start with Gmajor 3rd fret bottom E string and play the Gmajor scale 3nps.
ie      3 5 7
         357
         457
         457
         578
         578
This scale takes you through the e and d shape of the caged .

bigjon · December 2014

I visualise CAGED for chords / arpeggios and 3NPS for scales.

randomhandclaps · December 2014

Gru said:

I am looking at a picture for 3nps for e minor which I assume is at the 12th fret and the shape is the same as if I was playing the caged shape at the 12th?

I feel like I'm missing something?

Yes, whatever you're looking at is wrong.

CAGED system Em (Aeolian) at 12th fret =

12-14-15

12-13-15

11-12-14

12-14 (only two notes)

12-14-15

Whereas 3NPS would be =

14-15-17

13-15-17

12-14-16

12-14-15

If you were to just cover one octave on the lowers strings the they appear the same pattern but as you can see beyond that they are different.

Phil_aka_Pip · December 2014

@randomhandclaps I was thinking hey this can't be right - it took me a minute or two to work out that your'e giving the fingering from the 1st string to the 6th string!

randomhandclaps · December 2014

@Phil_aka_Pip - I've only done that because tab is that way up but it never looks quite right to me either.

Gru · December 2014

Now I'm confused. Ha ha.

Megii · December 2014

This is basically how I think of things - I have 7 basic patterns (so not CAGED), but with alternative places to play notes and some extra high notes added - such that CAGED and 3NPS are incorporated. So to me, it's not one thing or the other - no need to choose. I guess similar to how some of the others think, given their answers. Anyway, FWIW:

7 more done in a similar way for the jazz minor (aka melodic minor):

FWIW as I say

frankus · December 2014

patterns 1,2,3,4 and 7 are CAGED.

Megii · December 2014

frankus said:

patterns 1,2,3,4 and 7 are CAGED.

Fair point, I guess I was just trying to say that I started from a 7 pattern system and then developed from there. As I understand it, the CAGED patterns generally go for a change of position up or down where needed, rather than stretching for a note with the first or 4th finger. The basic 7 patterns I've adopted use finger stretches where needed, and the alternative places to find a note (shown in blue) allow for the position change approach. But I'm quite happy to agree that the CAGED patterns are all in there, no argument.

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3 notes per string vs CAGED

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