Slide Guitar

Teetonetal · March 2015

I have been playing guitar a long time now, and I would dearly love a new challenge. Was listening to some lap steel demo of the MP Simple pedal earlier and thought I really ought to learn to play slide. Till now I have only dabbled..

So what is a good slide to use?

Any good books, vids, youtube or online resourses

Any adjustments I should make to my guitar / string guage action etc... was gonna setup my new MIJ pink paisley for this..

Anything else?

paisleysoul · March 2015

I've got one of these:

Which is great for ad-hoc slide use. I've got a tele with action a little higher than usual for full on slide (and rhythm), but this is handy so slinging on a guitar and not having to piss around with adjustments. It's got 2 heights, so you have a bit of choice with it. A set of 11's should give you a variety of tunings (Open D, Open G, Standard and some others.).

Otherwise, try all the different types. I've got glass, ceramic, aluminium and brass (A stupidly thick Robert Johnson model), but I personally always end up going back to ceramic. I use the Jim Dunlop Rev Willie Porcelain slide.

Teetonetal · March 2015

Ohh interesting, will look into that - might be a good device to use to see how I get on before getting a guitar permenantly altered

IanSavage · March 2015

The downside of that kind of device (handy though they are) is that you're stuck with a VERY high lap-steel kind of action, which precludes any combination of 'slide-plus-'regular'' fretted playing. Whether you want that or not's your call, they're both quite separate techniques; but which one you go for might affect the type of slide you want to use.

Teetonetal · March 2015

IanSavage said:

The downside of that kind of device (handy though they are) is that you're stuck with a VERY high lap-steel kind of action, which precludes any combination of 'slide-plus-'regular'' fretted playing. Whether you want that or not's your call, they're both quite separate techniques; but which one you go for might affect the type of slide you want to use.

Interesting as I looked up the demo on the Jim Dunlop page and the guy is fretting notes too. But yes the action would be very high I guess.

However as a shoehorn into the genre it could be useful before I take the plunge and setup a guitar more for slide.

What string height is best - also should I be using a guitar with a curved fretboard?

Also anyone got tuition material recommendations?

Fazer4 · March 2015

So far, I haven't had to do anything to adapt a guitar for slide playing on any of the guitars I've had, not even altering the action, although I'm aware that a higher action is preferable. Not tried it on the new Strat yet though. Mostly I used to use open G, but want to try to get my head around slide in standard too, mostly because Rory Gallagher

I do have a bit of a problem though. Cos I smashed up my left arm in a bike accident years ago, slide vibrato is a bit of a problem, takes a lot out of my gammy shoulder. Oh well, never mind.

Teetonetal · March 2015

@Frazer4 All my guitars have very low action (as low as I can get) so playing slide for a beginner at least is really hard as even the weight of the slide "frets" down. I find the notes die really easily

ToneControl · March 2015

Teetonetal said:

I have been playing guitar a long time now, and I would dearly love a new challenge. Was listening to some lap steel demo of the MP Simple pedal earlier and thought I really ought to learn to play slide. Till now I have only dabbled..
So what is a good slide to use?
Any good books, vids, youtube or online resourses
Any adjustments I should make to my guitar / string guage action etc... was gonna setup my new MIJ pink paisley for this..
Anything else?

easiest/cheapest is a nut riser:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/like/261665764064?limghlpsr=true&hlpv=2&ops=true&viphx=1&hlpht=true&lpid=108&chn=ps&device=c&adtype=pla&crdt=0&ff3=1&ff11=ICEP3.0.0-L&ff12=67&ff13=80&ff14=108&ff19=0

not cheap is a proper "steel", the good ones are £20 even when discounted

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Shubb-SP1-String-Steel-Guitar/dp/B000EENFIG/ref=sr_1_7?ie=UTF8&qid=1425463486&sr=8-7&keywords=shubb+steel

I prefer this one, it lets you do 2 strings at once with the bit that sticks out

To me the sound is much nicer with a high-action guitar and a heavy steel, compared to a rattly bottleneck with normal action

Your other issue is that really, lap steel strings are a lot tighter than our normal guitars, 15s are common

if you play with 10s, then unless you tighten them up a tone or more, they will be too floppy

ToneControl · March 2015

Fazer4 said:

So far, I haven't had to do anything to adapt a guitar for slide playing on any of the guitars I've had, not even altering the action, although I'm aware that a higher action is preferable. Not tried it on the new Strat yet though. Mostly I used to use open G, but want to try to get my head around slide in standard too, mostly because Rory Gallagher

I do have a bit of a problem though. Cos I smashed up my left arm in a bike accident years ago, slide vibrato is a bit of a problem, takes a lot out of my gammy shoulder. Oh well, never mind.

If you play lap steel and use a proper steel, you can rock the steel to get vibrato

ToneControl · March 2015

Teetonetal said:

I have been playing guitar a long time now, and I would dearly love a new challenge. Was listening to some lap steel demo of the MP Simple pedal earlier and thought I really ought to learn to play slide. Till now I have only dabbled..
So what is a good slide to use?
Any good books, vids, youtube or online resourses
Any adjustments I should make to my guitar / string guage action etc... was gonna setup my new MIJ pink paisley for this..
Anything else?

oh, and you can get a lap steel for £50 new from Thomann, so I'd get one rather than mess about with your main guitar, that's how I got started

equalsql · March 2015

Thomman and Harley Benton are your friends if you fancy a lap-steel approach. This little package from them is amazing value for money:

http://www.thomann.de/gb/harley_benton_slider_ii_lap_steel_w_stand.htm

paisleysoul · March 2015

I've not found the action to be too high, personally. That said I have always used the lower of the 2 heights available with it.

vasselmeyer · March 2015

I have a specific guitar for electric slide, a Godin Radiator. I had a new nut cut for it which allows me to use heavier gauge strings and also raises the action slightly higher than is normal for fretted playing down at the low end. I also raised the saddles to give me a higher action higher overall. I put heavier strings on it then I normally use, 12-52 with a plain third. Although it's set up for slide I can also use it for open tuning songs, usually Stones stuff such as Brown Sugar or Gimme Shelter where I'm just bashing chords and little runs out on it but there is no way you could play any real fretted lead on it.

I have generally used a brass slide until very recently when I bought a new Star Singer slide at the guitar show which looks cool but is also lighter than my brass one. I played a couple of slide numbers at the evening jam and the slide felt really quite nice indeed. Here's a pick of it on my Godin:

The main thing about slide is to get used to how much pressure you can apply. Its easy to get too heavy-handed and accidentally fret the note which sounds dreadful. The only way around that is to raise the action and add heavier strings, so learn how to apply the right pressure.

In terms of sound, I prefer light fuzz with a little compression in front of it. You can really make those single notes sing and a double stop sounds great. I used to play in an open E-shape tuning exclusively (tuned to E or D) but the last few years have moved to open-A shape (giving you A or G) which gives a wider range of songs rather then just diddly-diddly Elmore James licks.

If you're just starting out I'd suggest listening to some George Thorogood stuff which is really quite crude playing but sounds effective. In a covers band, often a slide number will just jump right out because it's so different from the other covers-by-numbers that the punters see. For example we play "Crossroads" but I play slide on it which they don't expect and it goes down way better then normal. It also works well with ZZ Top stuff like "Just Got Paid" and it's nice to hear the solo for "Sharp Dressed Man" played as it was recorded rather than someone just playing it fretted on a standard-tuned guitar.

I love slide and it's really not a difficult skill to learn. A little patience and a decent ear and you can make a real impact on your band's sound and distinctiveness.

IanSavage · March 2015

Sorry to be a bore / blatent fanboi, but this chap is a master of acoustic slide:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bXsViH0oqfc

Teetonetal · March 2015

IanSavage said:

Sorry to be a bore / blatent fanboi, but this chap is a master of acoustic slide:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bXsViH0oqfc

Loving that

mattacjones · March 2015

My view is - take one of your guitars, put heavier strings on an hike the bridge up a tad. I'm using a strat at the moment, with 11's, works pretty well I find. It is definitley easier at the outset to have a pronouncedly high action, but it does limit your non slide fingering. Also, I find that you can leave action less high for the bass strings. Biggest issue I had was deciding which tuning to use as every time you change your mind, you have to rethink your view of the fretboard

IanSavage · March 2015

mattacjones said:

My view is - take one of your guitars, put heavier strings on an hike the bridge up a tad. I'm using a strat at the moment, with 11's, works pretty well I find. It is definitley easier at the outset to have a pronouncedly high action, but it does limit your non slide fingering. Also, I find that you can leave action less high for the bass strings. Biggest issue I had was deciding which tuning to use as every time you change your mind, you have to rethink your view of the fretboard

There's really only two common slide tunings in terms of 'shapes' though - open E is open D a tone up, so everything you can do in one works in the other, and the same with open G and A. No different from slapping on a capo.

In fact, since the intervals between the strings are the same in all four, the 'new' chord shapes you learn in, say, open G will work in open D or E - you just drop 'em down a string. The key is to think in terms of chord 'numbers' rather than names - I tend to play slide in open G so I've got my shapes for the IV, V, minor II and minor VI down pat without thinking about them; I actually have to take a minute to work out that they're C, D, Am and Em.

Teetonetal · March 2015

Do you think altered tuning is a must.. if so, most of our songs are in G, so that would seem to be a good starting point for me...

all good food for thought.

IanSavage · March 2015

Teetonetal said:

Do you think altered tuning is a must.. if so, most of our songs are in G, so that would seem to be a good starting point for me...

all good food for thought.

It's not a 'must', but it makes for smoother, 'nicer' licks when you're sliding about the place (and helps you break away from the pentatonic prison, should you be stuck in that ).

If most of your songs are in G then yeah, I'd be tempted to go with open G (puts you nicely into Rolling Stones territory as well; I defy you to stop playing 'Honky Tonk Women' or 'Brown Sugar' once you've worked them out); another option is to go into open E and capo up at the 3rd to put you in G. Advantage of this whilst you're getting used to slide is that all of your chords are at the fret you'd expect them to be if you were playing a barre across all six strings, so less likelihood of losing your place and making a horrible noise

Another thing to consider long-term is whether to push towards fingerpicking for slide - Ian Siegal and most other Delta-inspired bluesy slide players will often keep a root note going with their thumb while they play slide over the top of it to fill out the sound and provide a rhythmic base. Obviously you won't be too bothered by that if you're playing it in a full band anyway, but if you're looking at it at some stage then open G or A gives you more options for that low-note thumb 'pedal', since you can get both the root note and the V chord on the two lower strings.

EricTheWeary · March 2015

For a properly posh slide have a look at Diamond Bottleneck slides. There are some links on their site that might be useful as well.
I was amazed at how quickly I could make a useable noise on slide in open G, open E okay and absolutely sweet FA in standard tuning.

|)

Whatshisname from Govt Mule talks about the secret slide tuning within standard - the D G B strings are the same as they would be for open G. So, for a small amount of slide you have got an instant 3 stringed guitar!

To a large extent modern slide players try to have a very clean technique but if you listen to Son House or even George Thorogood there is a lot of noise in their playing.

And wisdom to Ian about open G, lot of fun stuff to be played with that without a slide as a bonus if you go that way.

richardhomer · March 2015

Open G is definitely my favourite tuning.

My 'slide' Strat is set up with a slightly higher action than my other guitars and 10-46 strings. If I didn't use the guitar for other things, I'd probably go up to 11s.

I always finger-pick when playing slide - it gives a lot of control over damping.

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