Running Down A (Digital) Dream - (Helix vs FX8 vs Kemper)

Wazmeister

The wife and I were out somewhere scenic the other week… and, we both took a photo of the same majestic view; she used her Samsung camera phone, and I used my camera - a Fuji XT1.

An interesting conversation followed, as the difference between the two photos was amazing. 

Mine was much more realistic, closer to the actual scene we had looked upon, and indeed more authentic. The Samsung had, though, turned the scene into something different altogether; it was obviously still recognisable, and was somehow less realistic but more vivid and much more colourful… 

“I much prefer my photo…” declared Mrs Wazmeister.

"Yes”, said I (in superior tones) “but which is more true-to-life ???”

“I don’t know or care” said she, “but mine is simply more pleasing to look at, and more inspirational…”

PART ONE - Introduction

My own analogue set up is now comprised of two classic amps; a Carr Rambler 1x12 combo, and a Redplate RP50R Head with a Zilla 1x12 cab. These are the bench mark, and are truly superb amps imho. I tend to play clean, with a hint of break-up, rarely processing past any drive heavier than Tom Petty, The Jam etc etc.

http://i1160.photobucket.com/albums/q493/Warren3333/1_3.jpg

Where to begin ?! I simply started off by tidying everything up. You know what it’s like, a sprawl of wires everywhere, disorganised chaos in this case. I labelled the cables up (see photo), cleaned it all out, and started the process of comparison…

The test case was my 4 pedal board (see photo), which I KNOW sounds superb ! I did have a brief stage where I thought I should just have a real pedal board. Go full circle if you like… as I do believe that ‘real’ pedals do indeed have the edge over modelling stuff.

http://i1160.photobucket.com/albums/q493/Warren3333/3_2.jpg

With my 50th birthday approaching in July, the wife has very kindly offered to buy a G2 with a Schmidt Array board. I may yet take her up on this stupendous offer !! 

But I felt like there was still mileage in the potential of digital modelling…

Wazmeister

PART TWO

Enter the Line 6 Helix, Fractal FX8 and Kemper Profiler. 

All products of the digital age; all incredibly ground breaking, and all have the ability to (seemingly) mimic real analogue life. All have their own fans, and the debate is often fierce between the various camps. I decided to compare them myself, after I’ve been very fortunate to acquire these all at roughly the same time. 

The FX8 was my first acquisition, and was the result of hasty GAS and an even hastier part exchange. I am NOT a tweaker, and delving into menus doesn't appeal to me at all…

But, I loved it from the first minute. The delays, verbs and that looper were all superb, warm pleasing and authentic. And just great and simple to use. I even bought an AX8 later on, but still preferred my lovely MK 1 FX8…

The Kemper followed next. If I had unlimited funds and room, Id just keep buying amps. That’s where the magic is imho. So, the Kemper seemed a natural choice, with its 10,000 plus amps.

I wasn’t to be disappointed with the Kemper either. The Redplate settings sounded SO close to my actual Redplate RP50R, that it was unnerving and unsettling.

Likewise, the modelled/profiled versions of Divided By 13 9/15 and Carol Ann amps were SO good, that they gave me gas for the real thing !

Straight away, I knew the Kemper was a keeper. 

Finally, I made a plunge for the Line 6 Helix LT. I had lower expectations of the Helix, having tried an earlier version which I found a bit ‘meh’. Nevertheless, stupidity greed and gas usually get the better of me, and thus it was in this case too…

It quickly became evident that a broad judgement began to form in my mind;

• The sounds of the reverbs and delays were instantly superior on the FX8
• The looper sounded better and clearer on the FX8
• The Helix had a superb and far superior workflow
• The Helix is a creative, inspiration machine
• The Kemper beats em both for amp sounds, as you may expect

Wazmeister

PART THREE

FX8 Strengths

Unity volume. It doesn't sound exciting does it ?! But you quite simply plug the FX8 into an amp (in my case a choice of 3 amps) and it instantly, without any need to adjust ANY settings, works at unity volume.

Simple to use. Plug and play. Stunning looper. Best verbs and delays Ive heard. Stunning in stereo use. No hum. No ground looper switching needed.  Silent. 

Works simply, silently and superbly in stereo with two amps.

http://i1160.photobucket.com/albums/q493/Warren3333/FX8a.jpg

Helix LT Strengths

The User Interface. The User Interface. The bloody User Interface. It is, quite frankly, stunning. 

I’m sure whatever combination of sounds you could aspire too, imagine or aim for - you will find them in the Helix. And this is where it scores, imho. You can add blocks on the unit in seconds; create two separate amp paths in seconds; add a volume boost/comp/drive etc etc in seconds.No needs to link up to a computer here. 

The Helix is simple, intuitive and a creatives dream.

CONCLUSION

Back to the start - do you remember the camera story with the wife ? That is so similar to my own personal conclusions regarding this digital vs digital vs analogue comparison…

The Helix is like that digital photo. More vivid, not as real maybe. More practical. Most of my photos are shown on my iPhone - most of my sounds/creativity are in a room in my house.

The Helix comes out on top.

Is it the best sound ? No.

Does it sound as good as ‘real’ pedals ? Not initially - although with tweaking Im sure it could mimic most as least very closely…

Sure enough, the Helix doesn't sound exactly like the ‘real’ thing, or even maybe as good (at this stage in my early journey); but man, the prospects are unlimited. Unlimited.

I sold my beloved FX8. I sent the Helix LT back, as I think I prefer the Scribble strips and extra 2 footswitches.

Helix (Full Fat) Floor on order.

Very happy, and indeed, excited at the future prospects. 

http://i1160.photobucket.com/albums/q493/Warren3333/1129271.jpg

Wazmeister

Apologies for the indulgent thread

professorben

Can we see the two landscape pics?

professorben

Or pictures of your wife.  

Wazmeister

@professorben - brilliant

professorben

Wazmeister said:

@professorben - brilliant

Tbh, I'm now out of beer and plundering the leftover booze from Christmas.

Currently Malibu.

guitarfishbay

Thanks for posting. Interesting to hear from someone who has used them all.

So do you change settings a lot?

It seems like you've picked on user interface, but you started out by saying you don't like to tweak and that the sounds were better on the other units out of the box. I guess it depends how you classify and distinguish creativity and tweaking.

I'm a Axe FX 2 user but I'd probably take a Helix over an FX8 for the user interface too if it's just for FX with an amp. From what I can tell, Fractal models subjectively sounding better than Helix with less time spent tweaking is a theme I've seen from a few people who've used both. Where the Helix seems faster is setting up whole patches and routing on the fly, and of course the pedal edit mode which is very cool. 

Jonathanthomas83

Amazing! Chuffed you got there mate. I agree with you about the picture thing, it's a nice metaphor for modelling v real amps. 

Confused though, does the FX8 do full on amp modelling too then? Thought it was just FX?

Cabicular

Thats pretty much it isn't it. The Helix isn't the best at one particular thing but the sum of the parts makes it the one for me. Like you I have a lot of very nice amps, a lot of very nice pedals and have owned an FX8 a Amplifire a Kemper and a Helix.
When it comes to gig time its the Helix that goes in the bag. At home I spend far too much time with the powered Kemper. occassionaly I'll fire up some real amps in case I'm missing something but its always a little dissapointing

Vaiai

nice write up @Wazmeister ;
I agree, my FX8 is cracking but little things about it niggle me. Helix kinda covers all bases, sounds fine, looks good and as you say - is so easy to use and leads to creativity - if you don't end up down the IR path...that way lies madness

Teetonetal

Did you ever put the kemper in the helix loops? That would strike me as your perfect (if indulgent) digital rig.

I couldnt agree more about the Helix as an inspiration machine though.  I think its amazing. So versatile and really an awesome hub to connect lots of different gear together.

Line 6 did good.

Wazmeister

You see, I understand why people flip FX8/Helix/Kemper quickly...

If you dont delight in tweaking, and have little patience (that'll be me then), the initial sounds can be disappointing. And it can take an eternity to work out unity, which volumes to use, whether to have the pad on or off etc etc etc

It can very quickly descend into a huge rabbit whole. And a frustrating and expensive one at that. 

It was Patrick @Teetonetal ;  who opened my eyes early on; he spoke of the creativity and routing options. I was just concentrating on the sounds.

And here is the liberation - stop comparing digital side by side with the 'real' thing. Hell, it's mind bending to even compare the 'real' thing to the real thing...

Instead, use the Helix/FX8/Kemper to do the exact thing(s) that real pedals CAN'T. And man, when you combine modelling AND real pedals, wowzers...

For me, the whole creative world then just opened up.

stratman3142

Wazmeister said:

...And here is the liberation - stop comparing digital side by side with the 'real' thing. Hell, it's mind bending to even compare the 'real' thing to the real thing...

I think that's a good way of looking at things.

I'm not too concerned if things don't sound 'exactly' the same, provided I like the sound. Having said that, the reference to what is being modelled is useful because at least it gives a general indication of what to expect.

guitarfishbay

One of the small but kind of great advantages is no messing with cables/trying a new layout only to find your patch cable is 1cm too short.

Drew_TNBD

STAHHPPP ITT!!! UR GIVING ME GASSSS!!!

thomasw88

I loved the idea of the fx8. Tried one for 3 months and it sounded brilliant at home. But it just never sounded as good as pedals live.
I  was spending  far too much time tweaking it trying to get good sounds.

Tried a line 6 helix LT in a shop for about half an hour. It didn't blow me away.

At the moment I still prefer pedals.

Sporky

Excellent thread - thanks.

I try to pick a setup and then get on with it - too many comparisons give me choice paralysis. Apart from my dalliance with separate pedals, I've always chosen on the basis of the interface. To me the options in a particular price bracket and generation all sound about as good as each other, so how well I can get on with the unit is more important.

Sassafras

So, what you're saying is that neither the Helix, FX8 or Kemper take decent photographs?

Drew_TNBD

Sporky said:

Excellent thread - thanks.

I try to pick a setup and then get on with it - too many comparisons give me choice paralysis. Apart from my dalliance with separate pedals, I've always chosen on the basis of the interface. To me the options in a particular price bracket and generation all sound about as good as each other, so how well I can get on with the unit is more important.

I'm constantly flipping between wanting all the options and all the pedals or wanting a simple streamlined setup.

I didn't take my Helix to practice yesterday. I took:

Ernie Ball Volume Jnr
Polytune Mini
Boss PH-2 phaser
Ibanez DE7 analog delay
Source Audio Nemesis delay
Digitech Polara reverb

I could do most of what I need to do. But I just found it all a bit annoying.

- No spill over when changing patches on the Nemesis
- Tap tempo wasn't accurate enough because of how high off the floor the pedal was (pedal height + board height)
- Tap dancing to get various tones
- No gain options so I was limited to two channels on the amp

The Helix solves all that for me. I just need to keep integrating it into my live setup, because there are things I want to do that I haven't quite figured out the best way to do yet. For simplicity I might have to move away from my Orange Rockerverb for live use. Think I'm going to pick up a 5150III 100-watter.