Selling Your Used Gear To Music Shops - A Big No-No?

Dominic

I think @guitars 4you has exactly the right and fair attitude : ie he is not there to beat you down or opportune but will offer what is right for the deal to work for him....He has a business to run and is not a hobbyist (although it probably is a hobby too )
 I have never bought a guitar from him but he gets great reviews and obviously cares very much .
 Those who think that guitar shops are piss takers need to take a reality check on what gross profit business needs to survive
- I am surprised that the retailer credit terms are so hard ...very few retail business' would tolerate this .
My friend is CEO of a distributor that supplies numerous lines to a very well known supermarket chain- they demand 18 months credit !!............as he says .......every little hurts !

ToneControl

I thought commission sales were the best shop option: same sort of sale price as used, and the shop doesn't need to invest in stock

Babones

I've done the commission sale option and got the price I asked for. Sold in only a few weeks too.

guitars4you

pia98jf said:

guitars4you said:

pia98jf said:

Guitar dealers are up there with Estate agents and bankers.

thanks - I did not realise I'd gone that low

Actually I take it back then. Guitar dealers are the salt of the earth. I've never heard of a single example of them doing anything unscrupulous ever.

On a more serious note, it's not so much dealer prices that wind me up but more the mind games and tricks they play. I'm saying this based on a lot of experience of different dealers. There are some exceptions of course.

No no doubt someone will say "that's business". Well, there are different ways of doing business and that's why estate agents have the reputation they have. Because of the way they "do business".

I dare say as in any business that there are plenty of good dealers who you can develop a relationship with and others that you won't go back to - Knowingly or unknowingly some dealers will just pee you of with their values on used items  - I can't buy every used guitar that I'm offered, for one reason or another, but I just hope I can point this out in away that we both appreciate

midlifecrisis

when i was a kid i had a part time job in a camera shop. the general rule with 2nd hand stock was buy it off customer for 1/3 yes a third of retail charge, then double it up and sell it for 2/3  two thirds.

darthed1981

Surely it's logical a shop will offer you less than the potential sale price for any guitar?

If you sell to a punter directly, you pocket what the punter is willing to pay directly.  If you sell to a shop, the shop will have to make an allowance for both the cost of holding and selling your item, and the profit they expect to make from the item based on the amount of time it will spend in store, and the amount of space it takes up.

I guess there is a cross-over on trade-ins as there is obviously a chunk of margin in the retailer's price.  However, the retailer will still have a guitar left over they need to sell/take up space or simply junk.

I guess the various dealers here could weigh in on what is "fair" but ultimately it isn't a sin to make a profit.  Running a guitar store these days can't be an easy route to mega-riches.

ESBlonde

I don't get this dealer bashing (yes I know there are tossers amoungst them), but if you aren't prepared to 1) wait for the sale. 2) deal with the flakey buyers. 3) Pack and deliver the gear. Then paying someone else to do that for you is not unreasonable. Being impatient to get the next bit of gear and trading your stuff in is not the fault of the dealer. These days the options for moving stuff on far outweigh the limited market available when you had to scour small adds in the newspapaers.

goldtop

Just to add that the risk of leaving valuable guitars/gear with a dealer on commission sale is that the dealer goes bust.

Was - maybe still is - a problem with those London dealers who have several business trading from the same shop. The case I remember was the guy who left a Fender Twin with a Denmark St guitar shop, but didn't check the paperwork he got. He was later told the business had gone bust and his amp/proceeds with it.

Because the paperwork he had was for some similarly named percussion shop that the dealer ran as a Ltd company from the same address. Meanwhile the prestigious guitar shop carried on trading as normal, the staff didn't change, and the guy had no claim against for loss.

guitarfishbay

Didn't someone on here lose an expensive guitar in this way when ToneWorld closed

axisus

I've traded amps and guitars over the years at Coda. The prices are NOT GOOD! However, it's a quick deal and you are walking away with the thing you want. I have never understood the 'I want what I paid for it' mentality, I had enjoyment/use for x time, and that cost me x money for the privilege. Private sales can be a lot of hassle, can take a lot of time etc etc.

Octafish

axisus said:

I've traded amps and guitars over the years at Coda. The prices are NOT GOOD! However, it's a quick deal and you are walking away with the thing you want. I have never understood the 'I want what I paid for it' mentality, I had enjoyment/use for x time, and that cost me x money for the privilege. Private sales can be a lot of hassle, can take a lot of time etc etc.

Yeah, but it's just like new and I only bought a week ago, get yourself a bargain etc....

Heartfeltdawn

pia98jf said:

Actually I take it back then. Guitar dealers are the salt of the earth. I've never heard of a single example of them doing anything unscrupulous ever.

On a more serious note, it's not so much dealer prices that wind me up but more the mind games and tricks they play. I'm saying this based on a lot of experience of different dealers. There are some exceptions of course.

No no doubt someone will say "that's business". Well, there are different ways of doing business and that's why estate agents have the reputation they have. Because of the way they "do business".

Damning all dealers is ridiculous. It's like denouncing all Ebay buyers or sellers as crooks if you get one bad transaction. 

You will get less selling to a dealer than if you're online but you don't have any hassle afterwards. No couriers, no pickups with cash on collection that the buyer gets delayed on or gets cold feet. 

randella

darthed1981 said:

Running a guitar store these days can't be an easy route to mega-riches.

Having kept an eye on a family acquaintance who's done just that for the last 20 years, I can offer at least one bit of anecdotal evidence to say that it isn't ever going to land you in the 1% any time soon.

darthed1981

guitarfishbay said:

Didn't someone on here lose an expensive guitar in this way when ToneWorld closed

That sort of thing really shouldn't happen, unless under these commission arrangements title of the goods transfers to the retailer.  If this is the case it is a massive risk.

This is basically a kind of bailment until the goods are sold surely?  In which case the guitar should just be returned to whoever owns it, it isn't a resource belonging to the shop.

xpia98jf

Heartfeltdawn said:

pia98jf said:

Actually I take it back then. Guitar dealers are the salt of the earth. I've never heard of a single example of them doing anything unscrupulous ever.

On a more serious note, it's not so much dealer prices that wind me up but more the mind games and tricks they play. I'm saying this based on a lot of experience of different dealers. There are some exceptions of course.

No no doubt someone will say "that's business". Well, there are different ways of doing business and that's why estate agents have the reputation they have. Because of the way they "do business".

Damning all dealers is ridiculous. It's like denouncing all Ebay buyers or sellers as crooks if you get one bad transaction. 

You will get less selling to a dealer than if you're online but you don't have any hassle afterwards. No couriers, no pickups with cash on collection that the buyer gets delayed on or gets cold feet. 

"There are some exceptions of course."

Not reading posts properly is ridiculous!

guitarfishbay

darthed1981 said:

guitarfishbay said:

Didn't someone on here lose an expensive guitar in this way when ToneWorld closed

That sort of thing really shouldn't happen, unless under these commission arrangements title of the goods transfers to the retailer.  If this is the case it is a massive risk.

This is basically a kind of bailment until the goods are sold surely?  In which case the guitar should just be returned to whoever owns it, it isn't a resource belonging to the shop.

I think this thread is where it came up http://thefretboard.co.uk/discussion/8869/tone-world-in-administration/p1

goldtop

darthed1981 said:

guitarfishbay said:

Didn't someone on here lose an expensive guitar in this way when ToneWorld closed

That sort of thing really shouldn't happen, unless under these commission arrangements title of the goods transfers to the retailer.  If this is the case it is a massive risk.

This is basically a kind of bailment until the goods are sold surely?  In which case the guitar should just be returned to whoever owns it, it isn't a resource belonging to the shop.

In the case I recall, the poor owner had taken the amp into the guitar dealer (let's call it "Fred's Guitars"), and signed paperwork for the commission sale. The paperwork was in the name "Fred's Percussion World Ltd" and the amp owner didn't notice. Then the amp is sold, and the money is in Fred's Percussion World's account, for a while just before FPW Ltd goes bust, and the amp's owner has no claim against Fred's Guitars. I don't remember more than that.

It's not just the Harrisons who give the music industry a bad rep. I suspect that many of these old timers are very astute at moving the funds, assets and obligations of the various businesses around (rent, licencing, staff cost allocation, etc) so that with a bit of careful planning, there's nothing left in the sacrificial company when it goes under.

Dominic

goldtop said:

darthed1981 said:

guitarfishbay said:

Didn't someone on here lose an expensive guitar in this way when ToneWorld closed

That sort of thing really shouldn't happen, unless under these commission arrangements title of the goods transfers to the retailer.  If this is the case it is a massive risk.

This is basically a kind of bailment until the goods are sold surely?  In which case the guitar should just be returned to whoever owns it, it isn't a resource belonging to the shop.

In the case I recall, the poor owner had taken the amp into the guitar dealer (let's call it "Fred's Guitars"), and signed paperwork for the commission sale. The paperwork was in the name "Fred's Percussion World Ltd" and the amp owner didn't notice. Then the amp is sold, and the money is in Fred's Percussion World's account, for a while just before FPW Ltd goes bust, and the amp's owner has no claim against Fred's Guitars. I don't remember more than that.

It's not just the Harrisons who give the music industry a bad rep. I suspect that many of these old timers are very astute at moving the funds, assets and obligations of the various businesses around (rent, licencing, staff cost allocation, etc) so that with a bit of careful planning, there's nothing left in the sacrificial company when it goes under.

I think that's a bit too assumptious ........we're talking a bout little guitar shops with relatively small capital bases not international property companies...........that's like assuming the twat who sells a bit of weed down at the local pub has the private army of Pablo Escobar behind him

goldtop

Actually, we're talking about selling guitars to/through guitar dealers in general. The shop in question was your typical independent friendly dealer and it was tiny - about 10ft wide and 20ft long. Another forumite has told me about the same goings-on at another West End shop (he was an employee).

I'm saying that old hands at the music dealer business know all of the phoenixing/etc tricks.

Philly_Q

I've only ever traded in one guitar - at Coda, which has been mentioned several times in this thread - and I was very happy with what I got for it, I don't think I'd have made much, if any, more from a private sale.  They sold it quickly for, if I remember right, about £400 more but I didn't begrudge that at all.

Until a couple of years ago I'd sold loads of guitars on eBay but all the horror stories on here have frightened me off.

I'd like to try selling some guitars on commission - no pissing about taking photos, writing ads and dealing with stupid questions from "buyers" - but since I live in a backwater (London) there don't seem to be any good dealers offering that service.  I wish I lived closer to @guitars4you.