Nut material - does it make a difference?

axisus

A well cut nut is the thing that is required, but does it actually make a difference what it is made of? I was thinking that you would only see any real benefit when playing open strings, and that isn't really all that often most of the time. Does it really make that much of a difference? On the other hand, I bought a warmoth neck with a bone nut a couple of years ago. The nut was the worst cut I have ever seen - it looked like it was done with a hack saw, literally! The guitar played fine, but the nut looked such an abortion that I had it replaced. I can't recall off the top of my head what I had it replaced with, but it wasn't bone. Anyway, the neck just lost something of its mojo afterwards.

monquixote

PRS say yes. 

zenzeypher

Yeah but that guy is a complete plum.

I'm led to believe they do..but urm.. I don't actually know. I've swapped and cut a few nuts from bone etc but not noticed too much of a difference.. but I don't swap nuts unless I have to. But I struggle with what I believe with electric guitars..I try and stick by Faraday's law as urm it makes sense aha.

the only thing that should matter ever is the vibration of the string. so id imagine if it's soft it might cause the string to dampen.

so I would say yes. But not the material.. the density.

If a brass nut has the same density as bone than it would sound the same if all other variables are the same.

Adam_MD

zenzeypher;171945" said:

Yeah but that guy is a complete plum.
.

Why is he a complete plum? I find him incredibly knowledgable and very engaging to listen to.

zenzeypher

Adam_MD said:

zenzeypher;171945" said:

Yeah but that guy is a complete plum.
.

Why is he a complete plum? I find him incredibly knowledgable and very engaging to listen to.

because I just don't like him.. I think it's his shirt.

There's just some other videos I've seen him in.. whilst he is knowledgeable most of his examples where he's breaking them down to layman's terms are just completely wrong.

streethawk

Plum.

Good businessman though. 

stickyfiddle

Yes of course it makes a difference. Not as big as changing pickups, but definitely has an effect, as everything on a guitar does- it's all vibrating when you hit a string.

I vote not plum. He's trying very hard to make guitars better. You don't have to like everything PRS do, or everything he says, but he's trying damn hard and often succeeding. You have to give credit for that.

ICBM

I agree. I don't like the type of sounds he does, so I tend to find his progress towards that as sometimes counterproductive for what I like, but he does at least have a goal in mind and seems to know how to go about getting to it.

The nut does make a difference, even on an electric guitar and even on non-open notes. Tiny, but it is there - as usual one of these things that will be noticeable to the player but possibly not to a listener, especially in a recording. The reason is that the length of string between the fretted note and the nut - and behind the nut - is also vibrating a bit, which feeds into the neck vibration and thus back into the sounding part of the strings. I would say it's mostly down to the hardness of the material.

WezV

it does make a difference but most materials now sold as a guitar nut will work fine, you still see the occasional soft plastic one though

when trying a new material i drop the blanks onto my kitchen worktop.  if they go 'plink' they will work well, if they go 'plonk' they don't get used for a guitar nut

richardhomer

I've said this on here before, so forgive the repetition. I met Paul Reed Smith at (the late lamented) Tone World a couple of years ago. He was fascinating and clearly has an immense knowledge of all things guitar. He is far more than a 'business man' - to me he's the closet to a living Leo Fender or Ted McCarty. He has a passion for what he does which is infectious. I found him genuinely inspirational.

ICBM

The worst are those soft plastic ones which are hollow (either a single large cavity or several round holes) in order to save plastic… it's mind-boggling how much miniscule penny-pinching goes into every last detail of a cheap guitar. They really do sound dire!

ESchap

Brass! :-S

grungebob

Another vote for density affecting tone here. On my recent prs se custom i made a balls up on the bass e string cutting it for a wider 56 but took a hairs too much of the bottom giving a slight rattle, I had a credit note for a shop so used it to buy the prs replacement nut. The se nut had three slits in the bottom (penny pinching as ICBM said) but weirdly is thicker front to back than the usa replacement. The replacement weighed more and the strings literally gluided through it so much easier and extra brightness and sustain came about from fitting it, it was also better cut, i had to round the shoulders for comfort (something already done on the se one which is at odds with the penny pinching?) But with everthing else unchanged on the guitar there was a very noticable change

Skipped

Everything makes a difference.
But if I bought Pearly Gates (the real one) from Billy Gibbons, and the top two open strings were pinging a bit I would probably be weighing up the risk of changing the sound with a new nut (10% risk) against the risk of changing the sound with 2 tiny squares of Aluminium Foil in the nut slots (0.3% risk).

Just Sayin....

57Deluxe

The most difference is in tuning/wanging performance but bone nuts will be different to cheapo plastic in brightness but not enough to get hung up about.

p90fool

It's overrated IMO, they just have to be hard enough to stop the strings cutting into them.
There used to be lengthy arguments on TGP about how nut material affects all the other notes, but I can't imagine anyone claiming that a plastic 6th fret would do the same.

People make a massive deal out of this issue, claiming this is better than that, but none of it is as critical as how well its been cut.

musicegbdf

Whilst we are talking Nuts... Earvana . Very impressed by how it helps intonation . Surprised both these and Buzz Feiten have not had a greater take up ...though have to say a couple of my more expensive guitars seem to be better at overall intonation than the cheaper ones. PRS for example , so not sure if there is a little tweeking in the fret placement.

As to Mr PRS . I am a like. Just think how he gave Fender and Gibson a massive wakeup call to the crap they were churning out until he hit the scene. Still keeping them on their toes too... I am sure his passion is genuine

imalone

p90fool said:

It's overrated IMO, they just have to be hard enough to stop the strings cutting into them.
There used to be lengthy arguments on TGP about how nut material affects all the other notes, but I can't imagine anyone claiming that a plastic 6th fret would do the same.

People make a massive deal out of this issue, claiming this is better than that, but none of it is as critical as how well its been cut.

For most notes the string is not in contact with the 6th fret. It's always in contact with the nut and has a break angle that's putting downward force on. I think you're right in general, I'm just not sure it's a great comparison (besides, how many guitars have plastic frets?).

p90fool

It may always be on contact with the string, but is not always part of its speaking length.

Does a locking clamp behind the nut alter the sound of all the notes on a guitar? Or a zero fret?

I think sometimes we look for little bits of magic in guitar construction, but sometimes there really are things which don't actually matter.

ICBM

p90fool said:

It may always be on contact with the string, but is not always part of its speaking length.

No, but it contributes a small amount to the vibration of the far end of the neck.

p90fool said:

Does a locking clamp behind the nut alter the sound of all the notes on a guitar? Or a zero fret?

Yes in both cases.

p90fool said:

I think sometimes we look for little bits of magic in guitar construction, but sometimes there really are things which don't actually matter.

I agree - they do exist, although they may not actually matter to the final amplified sound. But if they change the feel and response of the guitar to the player, that can make a difference because the player will react differently and that *may* affect the final amplified sound. Not splitting hairs .

p90fool

All the notes? Seriously, not just six of them?