iPad/phone MIDI connection?

I'm just wondering how, of those who use MIDI with IOS devices, you connect it up.

I know my options are basically twofold; a standard USB MIDI interface connecting to the 30pin/Lightning port via a Camera Connection Kit / OTG adapter cable...., or Bluetooth.  Yamaha do a Bluetooth MIDI interface and this looks good - if a bit pricey.

Anyone tried one?

Also, would anyone know if the latency is better with an external soundcard (such as a Sonicport) compared to the internal soundcard?  I know I'm thinking of PCs here where ASIO drivers were the only path to ultra-low latency.  Does the same apply to IOS ?
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  • FretwiredFretwired Frets: 15829
    I have a SonicPort and a cheap Steinberg UR22 MKII interface which allows me to connect my iPad to my PC for recording purposes. There's no latency on either device.
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  • TimmyOTimmyO Frets: 2816
    what you trying to do? If you want to connect an external device that has DIN connections then there is the PUC+ - I've got one and it works really well - also does USB devices

    http://mipuc.com/

    alternatively as you say, any class compliant USB interface and the CCK

    Not sure what you're asking re Sonicport - it doesn't do midi (which I'm guessing you already know) so I might be missing the point... ? 
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  • TimmyOTimmyO Frets: 2816
    TimmyO said:
    what you trying to do? If you want to connect an external device that has DIN connections then there is the PUC+ - I've got one and it works really well - also does USB devices

    http://mipuc.com/

    alternatively as you say, any class compliant USB interface and the CCK

    Not sure what you're asking re Sonicport - it doesn't do midi (which I'm guessing you already know) so I might be missing the point... ? 
    It's help to know what you're using midi for
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  • FretwiredFretwired Frets: 15829
    For MIDI you just need the camera connection kit. This will allow you to connect a keyboard.



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  • wave100wave100 Frets: 124
    I have used Bluetooth to get MIDI between my iPad and Macbook Pro - worked fine and no cables required, then just take the headphone out of the iPad into my mixer. I haven't found a way to make it work with Windows though, although Bluetooth MIDI is allegedly supported natively on Win 10.
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  • Emp_FabEmp_Fab Frets: 12886
    I want to play softsynths on the iPad from my DIN MIDI Out keyboard.  That’s it.  My question is how do you do it and has anyone tried the Yamaha MD-BT01 Bluetooth interface.

    My other question was, do you get better latency with an external sound card such as the sonic port or is the built-in sound circuitry good enough?
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  • TimmyOTimmyO Frets: 2816
    Not used the Yamaha, but have used the PUC+ successfully

    Audio doesnt work like that in iOS - sonicport isn't a 'sound card' in the PC sense - it is a DAC and a Mixer that allows you to put a couple of analogue signals into the SP and turn then in to the digital stream the lightning port expects. (and in reverse, takes the digital audio stream from the iOS device and turns it analogue so you can stick headphones/analogue out connections in the SP.

    Where are you concerned about latency between? Where does the softsynth sound need to get to? Stay in the iOS device and recorded there? Just to your headphones? Or out to an analogue destination? 
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  • TimmyOTimmyO Frets: 2816
    Not used the Yamaha, but have used the PUC+ successfully

    Audio doesnt work like that in iOS - sonicport isn't a 'sound card' in the PC sense - it is a DAC and a Mixer that allows you to put a couple of analogue signals into the SP and turn then in to the digital stream the lightning port expects. (and in reverse, takes the digital audio stream from the iOS device and turns it analogue so you can stick headphones/analogue out connections in the SP.

    Where are you concerned about latency between? Where does the softsynth sound need to get to? Stay in the iOS device and recorded there? Just to your headphones? Or out to an analogue destination? 
    "Congratulations on being officially the most right anyone has ever been about anything, ever." -- Noisepolluter knows the score
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  • FretwiredFretwired Frets: 15829
    Emp_Fab said:
    I want to play softsynths on the iPad from my DIN MIDI Out keyboard.  That’s it.  My question is how do you do it and has anyone tried the Yamaha MD-BT01 Bluetooth interface.

    My other question was, do you get better latency with an external sound card such as the sonic port or is the built-in sound circuitry good enough?
    You need something like this ...

    https://www.thomann.de/gb/maudio_midisport_uno.htm

    And the Apple Camera Connection kit ... I have no experience of Bluetooth. I'm an old cable guy. You won't get any latency from something like that ..

    Alternatively, buy a new usb-based MIDI keyboard - they are cheap these days.

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  • TimmyOTimmyO Frets: 2816
    midi over bluetooth doesn't suffer from latency. It's tiny tiny amounts of data - not an audio stream

    "Congratulations on being officially the most right anyone has ever been about anything, ever." -- Noisepolluter knows the score
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  • Emp_FabEmp_Fab Frets: 12886
    @TimmyO Well, there are many reviews of the Yamaha Bluetooth MIDI interface where they complain about the latency and in several cases returning the item as a result.

    Yamaha themselves refer to “low latency” in their advertising.  As for my intended use, I am talking about playing it live - into an amp.  I'm very familiar with playing VSTIs like this with a PC host, so my experience is one of ASIO drivers etc and tweaking everything to reduce the latency.  On my PC, I use an old Behringer UCA200 external USB sound card with ASIO drivers.  Therefore, I’m seeing the Sonicport as a similar device.

    From what you say, the output of the Sonicport is, in effect, identical in timing and (maybe) quality to the headphone output on the iPad itself.

    All I want to do is play softsynths live with little latency.  If I can achieve that with a wired USB MIDI interface (which I already have) via a camera connection kit and take the audio from the headphone socket then great, all I need to buy is the camera connection kit.  What I am a bit concerned about is the battery life....  if the USB MIDI interface is powered from the iPad’s battery and I can’t charge it simultaneously (because I’m using the iPad socket already for the camera kit), then would it last a full gig with room to spare ?
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  • TimmyOTimmyO Frets: 2816
    The newest version of the CCK is bigger as it has 2 connectors - 1 for the USB device and 1 lightning connector to plug a iOS power source in too - so that'll keep your iOS device charged.

    It *should* be fine powering the USB/midi thing from the iOS/CCK but occasionally you hear of issues - I'd just go for it. 
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  • TimmyOTimmyO Frets: 2816
    Emp_Fab said:
    @TimmyO Well, there are many reviews of the Yamaha Bluetooth MIDI interface where they complain about the latency and in several cases returning the item as a result.


    I'll be a quid that the people posting complaints weren't clear on (or capable of understanding) whether it was audio latency starting inside the iOS device -> sound generation -> getting out of the device via whatever means vs 'bluetooth midi latency' 

    there are reviews online showing the PUC+ in use 




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  • TimmyOTimmyO Frets: 2816
    (forum software incorrectly trying to parse the link) go to youtube and search PUC+
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  • TheBigDipperTheBigDipper Frets: 814
    edited January 5
    My very inexpensive PreSonus Audiobox iTwo audio interface lets you connect your iDevice to it using your lightening cable. The MIDI keyboard is connected using the MIDI in DIN socket. It drives the iPad and the audio from the iPad goes to powered monitors. 

    Downside is is the iPad doesn't get charged when in use like this. 
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  • Emp_FabEmp_Fab Frets: 12886
    @Fretwired (or any other knowledgeable persons !) - I'm just about to buy a Camera Connection Kit for my iPad3 (30pin to USB female cable), with the intention of plugging in my ancient Edirol UM-1 USB MIDI interface.

    I know bugger all about connecting things to IOS devices.  How does it recognise it as a MIDI interface ?  Does it need drivers ?  If so, I'm stuffed as there are no IOS drivers on Roland's site (who now own Edirol).  How does it work ?  I don't believe it's just going to go "Oh, I've found a MIDI interface....  I've set that up fine... now off you go".

    Nothing is ever that simple !
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  • goldtopgoldtop Frets: 812
    VERY unlikely. It doesn't use drivers but does need core compatibility with the iDevice's way of handling MIDI. Roland is generally pretty poor at that.

    By far and away the easiest option for your iPad 3 is this widget: http://www.esi-audio.com/products/midintourcx/ but I think it's been discontinued since the Lightning connector came along.


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  • FretwiredFretwired Frets: 15829
    Emp_Fab said:
    @Fretwired (or any other knowledgeable persons !) - I'm just about to buy a Camera Connection Kit for my iPad3 (30pin to USB female cable), with the intention of plugging in my ancient Edirol UM-1 USB MIDI interface.

    I know bugger all about connecting things to IOS devices.  How does it recognise it as a MIDI interface ?  Does it need drivers ?  If so, I'm stuffed as there are no IOS drivers on Roland's site (who now own Edirol).  How does it work ?  I don't believe it's just going to go "Oh, I've found a MIDI interface....  I've set that up fine... now off you go".

    Nothing is ever that simple !
    I doubt it will work. You need to buy something like this:

    https://www.thomann.de/gb/maudio_midisport_uno.htm

    Check the video I posted above.

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  • Emp_FabEmp_Fab Frets: 12886
    Will do.  Thankyou.
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  • Emp_FabEmp_Fab Frets: 12886
    goldtop said:
    VERY unlikely. It doesn't use drivers but does need core compatibility with the iDevice's way of handling MIDI. Roland is generally pretty poor at that.

    By far and away the easiest option for your iPad 3 is this widget: http://www.esi-audio.com/products/midintourcx/ but I think it's been discontinued since the Lightning connector came along.

    Thanks for that @goldtop - I managed to find a shop on the German eBay that was selling a job lot of five of those exact widgets - brand new in boxes - and I've just bought them for £41 delivered for the lot !

    I will shortly be selling four of them !  Cheers mate !  =)
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  • Emp_FabEmp_Fab Frets: 12886
    @goldtop Hi Mate,  I've finally got around to trying the Midi NTour interface, but I must be doing something daft as I can't get bugger all out of the iPad.  Being an IOS newbie, I was wondering if I had to do anything to get it to work.  I've googled but there's not a lot of info on the subject.  According to ESI, Garageband is CoreMidi compatible and my iPad recognises the nTour is connected (Settings, About, <bit on the Midi interface>).  My MIDI keyboard is working fine and set to OMNI... but nothing !  I've tried a couple of other synth apps too, and a different nTour from the 5 I bought, but still nothing.

    I'm just wondering if it needs to be enabled or something, somewhere !  I don't suppose you might know ?
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  • TimmyOTimmyO Frets: 2816
    Have you set the midi input device within Garageband/Synth App settings? 
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  • Emp_FabEmp_Fab Frets: 12886
    There isn't an option to select a midi input in the apps.  However, it is now working!  I don't know what fixed it.  It definitely wasn't me being a twat and plugging the DIN cable marked "Out" into the midi Out on my keyboard when of course the names on the plugs refer to the data direction with respect to the midi interface - i.e. the midi OUT of my keyboard goes to the midi IN of the interface.

    It definitely wasn't that.  Nosireebob.

    It's just a mystery.
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