Hydrogen

stephen.wood125

crunchman said:

stephen.wood125 said:

 
Maybe we should reduce our carbon footprint by just not letting Richard Hammond anywhere near any vehicles?

Not just Hammond:

https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/tv/news/top-gear-new-series-when-what-date-car-fire-eddie-jordan-chris-harris-monte-carlo-rally-a8192656.html

I think that was the episode where Harris killed two Volvo 4 x 4s as well.

Ah yeah! good point 

Jalapeno

Instead of the Hindenberg, a re-issue of Led Zeppelin 2 could have a head-on crash of two hydrogen powered cars

mr-mac

One wee thing about hydrogen... Yous seen how much electric it takes to extract and pressurise hydrogen??????

ThePrettyDamned

stephen.wood125 said:

I shudder to think how much more "greenhouse effect" all that water vapour will make. That being said Lithium is also a finite resource. 

Err... None? 

fandango

Jalapeno said:

Instead of the Hindenberg, a re-issue of Led Zeppelin 2 could have a head-on crash of two hydrogen powered cars

A mash up of Led Zep and The Cars? Cool. If only I could find one ....

ICBM

mr-mac said:

One wee thing about hydrogen... Yous seen how much electric it takes to extract and pressurise hydrogen??????

It doesn't matter as long as the electricity is generated from renewables. That's energy which is already present in the environment and just needs to be tapped.

crunchman said:

I think it's a better alternative than battery powered cars.

Equipping a few thousand filling stations to deliver hydrogen will be a lot cheaper than installing millions of electric car charging points and massive upgrades to the grid.

The charging time for electric cars is still an issue as well.  If they get bigger batteries to get more range, then it will become a bigger issue - unless they put in really fast charging points, which will require even more upgrades to the electricity infrastructure.

Hydrogen is a good way to store intermittent electricity from renewables as well.  When there is a surplus, you separate the hydrogen from sea water using electrolysis.  Countries with lots of spare renewable resources

like Scotland.

Scotland has the highest potential for renewable energy generation per head of population in Europe, from something I read a while back. It's certainly wet and windy enough, and with huge tides and wave energy from the Atlantic.

It saddens me that the Scottish government hasn't been encouraging investment in this much more than they have, instead of relying on the oil industry. It would be fantastic if the UK could become self-sufficient in hydrogen cell energy.

thebreeze

HAL9000 said:

Axe_meister said:

It is also far more volatile than petrol and holds less energy for a given volume.  

Ah, I noticed in the cutaway diagrams for the RiverSimple Rasa that the fuel tank occupied pretty much all of the available boot space.

I think they're developing a 4 seater and a van now

Rocker

Rather than generate more and more electricity, reduce demand by the use of more insulation in houses and drive cars, with a sole occupant, less than we do now. 

WezV

Rocker said:

Rather than generate more and more electricity, reduce demand by the use of more insulation in houses and drive cars, with a sole occupant, less than we do now. 

Or, do those things... and find ways to provide cleaner fuel

Doesnt have to be either/or

Phil_aka_Pip

Why wait to charge a car? Why not exchange your empty batteries for full ones?

vasselmeyer

Phil_aka_Pip said:

Why wait to charge a car? Why not exchange your empty batteries for full ones?

Because every manufacturer has a different format . Unless there is an industry standard then you need to charge them or get a specific Ford/Toyota//Volkswagen battery at your charging location. 

Bucket

I would 100% have a fuel cell car if I could.

ICBM

Phil_aka_Pip said:

Why wait to charge a car? Why not exchange your empty batteries for full ones?

Because they are large and heavy, and not easy to get in and out of a car.

hobbio

ICBM said:

Phil_aka_Pip said:

Why wait to charge a car? Why not exchange your empty batteries for full ones?

Because they are large and heavy, and not easy to get in and out of a car.

But if batteries were standardised and a standard mechanism could be designed for an automated drive in drive out swap it could be done in seconds. 

Axe_meister

Phil_aka_Pip said:

Why wait to charge a car? Why not exchange your empty batteries for full ones?

This was tried in Israel. The ex CTO of SAP started a company call better world. Alas it went bust. A hard one to do. Technically fairly easy. Lift car, drop battery, insert new battery, lower car drive off.
But it will mean a standard battery across all manufacturers, forcing a standard layout. Will also mean a small car will have massive range and a large heavy car much smaller range.

Bucket

Axe_meister said:

Phil_aka_Pip said:

Why wait to charge a car? Why not exchange your empty batteries for full ones?

This was tried in Israel. The ex CTO of SAP started a company call better world. Alas it went bust. A hard one to do. Technically fairly easy. Lift car, drop battery, insert new battery, lower car drive off.
But it will mean a standard battery across all manufacturers, forcing a standard layout. Will also mean a small car will have massive range and a large heavy car much smaller range.

Surely if it was standardised there could be a way that a large and heavy car could be fitted with a second battery? In the same way that bigger cars tend to have bigger fuel tanks.

Sporky

If you have a look at how the Teslas and the forthcoming i-Pace are built (along with many others) the batteries are fitted into the floorpan - no way you can simply pop them out.

Building a car that had a swappable battery would mean massive compromises in packaging. Either it's much bigger than with an integrated battery, or there's a lot less space inside, or the centre of gravity is far too high for safe handling.

A car subscription is probably more sensible - drive one car in and it goes on charge; you leave in an identical one that's just finished charging. But that means moving away from the current concept of car ownership.

ThePrettyDamned

Sporky said:

If you have a look at how the Teslas and the forthcoming i-Pace are built (along with many others) the batteries are fitted into the floorpan - no way you can simply pop them out.

Building a car that had a swappable battery would mean massive compromises in packaging. Either it's much bigger than with an integrated battery, or there's a lot less space inside, or the centre of gravity is far too high for safe handling.

A car subscription is probably more sensible - drive one car in and it goes on charge; you leave in an identical one that's just finished charging. But that means moving away from the current concept of car ownership.

It probably isn't that far off though - I can definitely see a future without much car ownership. 

It may mean fewer cars on the road and fewer cars being built, too - which could be positive for the environment. 

vasselmeyer

I think you're right that some kind of subscription model in terms of cities and for typical car use will come. Most cars sit in one spot doing nothing for 95% of their time.

However, further out from cities and suburbs you tend to get more specialist uses and there will still be vehicle ownership in one form or another.

Sporky

Ah - sorry, I meant "more sensible than swapping batteries".

I know there's been a fair shift towards leasing cars rather than actually owning them, but I think subscription will be a slow grower, and I agree it'll be more appropriate in towns and cities.