Patriotism

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  • VimFuegoVimFuego Frets: 6044
    swift edit I'm sure no one saw anything.

    I'm not locked in here with you, you are locked in here with me.

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  • BridgehouseBridgehouse Frets: 13598
    Fretwired said:

    TOP 10 BLACK COUNTRY WESTERNS

    1. Lye Noon

    2. Blazing Saddlers

    3. Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Our Kid

    4. Dancing With Wolves

    5. No Country for Oldbury Men

    6. Bad Day At Blackheath

    7. A Fist Full Of Scratchings

    8. Once Upon A Time in the West Midlands

    9. Hang Em High Bullen

    10. High Arcal Plains Drifter


    Brilliant ! Thanks @west ;; enjoyed that link. There's still a very high probability of getting shot by someone from Lye to this day.

    You left out Black country, How the West (Brom) was won, 3:10 to Dudley, Wild wild West Bromwich ..
    The Good, the Bad and the Baggies? 


    Or The Good, The Bad, and the Dudley
    They should do Black Country film names for other genres...

    On Tipton Pond...
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  • EricTheWearyEricTheWeary Frets: 6904
    VimFuego said:
    hang on, I was adopted?!?


    @VimFuego we’d been looking for a way to break it to you gently; the good news it turns out you’re related to the Nigerian royal family and for just a small deposit to my account at Indiamoney.org I will be able to get you reunited. 
    I feel the warm, healing, liquid presence of God’s genuine cold-filtered grace. 
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  • EricTheWearyEricTheWeary Frets: 6904
    edited July 12
    grey_question 
    [ also swift edit, no one noticed]
    I feel the warm, healing, liquid presence of God’s genuine cold-filtered grace. 
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  • VimFuegoVimFuego Frets: 6044
    VimFuego said:
    hang on, I was adopted?!?


    @VimFuego we’d been looking for a way to break it to you gently; the good news it turns out you’re related to the Nigerian royal family and for just a small deposit to my account at Indiamoney.org I will be able to get you reunited. 
    been reading how hard it is to send money overseas, but I'll do my best.

    I'm not locked in here with you, you are locked in here with me.

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  • Phil_aka_PipPhil_aka_Pip Frets: 8612
    @MagicPigDetective ; full marks for being proud of your heritage and wanting to preserve it.
    From An Englishman.
    "Working" software has only unobserved bugs. (Parroty Error: Pieces of Nine! Pieces of Nine!)
    Seriously: If you value it, take/fetch it yourself
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  • MagicPigDetectiveMagicPigDetective Frets: 454
    edited July 12
    @MagicPigDetective ;;; full marks for being proud of your heritage and wanting to preserve it.
    From An Englishman.
    Thanks  @Phil_aka_Pip ;   you’ve warmed the cockles of my heart! 
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  • littlegreenmanlittlegreenman Frets: 3075
    edited July 12

    I’ve been on this forum for a couple of years and have avoided discussions on politics and nationalism, as I see it as a nice escape from reality; but I now feel like saying something. I am from Wales. My first language is Welsh, as was my parents, grandparents, my wife, children, many friends and the majority of residents where I live. My views are totally shaped by inheriting this ancient language and heritage, which I love deeply. 

    My feelings of patriotism for Wales are influenced by the threat and real possibilty that my culture could dissapear in a generation or two under the tide of British nationslism and anglicisation, be it deliberate or not. I want to stand up and defend my language and culture against this. If it dies in Wales, it’s gone forever. This leads me to having no warm affinity to Britain, or the United Kingdom if Great Britain and Northern Ireland as it’s correctly called, as a state. It’s not personal as I have good English friends. I feel no warmth to GB; I am Welsh. It’s a distinct nation, as is French, Croat or Greek. Perhaps being from a small nation makes is easier to be patriotic without feelings if guilt. I have been reluctant to mention this on the fretboard till now as us welsh speakers are long used to being attacked and put down for speaking our language [gulp] 



    Yn wir. Doethineb'd

    From just across the border.


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  • FretwiredFretwired Frets: 15799
    edited July 12

    I’ve been on this forum for a couple of years and have avoided discussions on politics and nationalism, as I see it as a nice escape from reality; but I now feel like saying something. I am from Wales. My first language is Welsh, as was my parents, grandparents, my wife, children, many friends and the majority of residents where I live. My views are totally shaped by inheriting this ancient language and heritage, which I love deeply. 

    My feelings of patriotism for Wales are influenced by the threat and real possibilty that my culture could dissapear in a generation or two under the tide of British nationslism and anglicisation, be it deliberate or not. I want to stand up and defend my language and culture against this. If it dies in Wales, it’s gone forever. This leads me to having no warm affinity to Britain, or the United Kingdom if Great Britain and Northern Ireland as it’s correctly called, as a state. It’s not personal as I have good English friends. I feel no warmth to GB; I am Welsh. It’s a distinct nation, as is French, Croat or Greek. Perhaps being from a small nation makes is easier to be patriotic without feelings if guilt. I have been reluctant to mention this on the fretboard till now as us welsh speakers are long used to being attacked and put down for speaking our language [gulp] 


    I don't get this ... my father's family are from Wales, my mother's and my wife's from Scotland and I was born in England. The Welsh have their own parliament committed to protecting the Welsh language and heritage. Do you think the English hordes will pour over the border? If the Welsh language does vanish it has more to do with social media platforms, the internet age and a lack of interest from young people in Wales than the English or British nationalism. I'm old and don't get the age of the millennials - the English language constantly changes and evolves and is now full of jargon I don't understand. The French have tried to fight a rearguard action to protect their language and failed. It's now full of English terms mostly from the USA as used in social media. Language evolves. Things change. Apparently we'll all be speaking Chinglish by 2060. I'll be long dead.

    My Welsh relatives are proud to be Welsh but don't speak the language.
    My pump-action drivel gun is smoking hot today!
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  • p90foolp90fool Frets: 7995
    Fretwired said:

    I’ve been on this forum for a couple of years and have avoided discussions on politics and nationalism, as I see it as a nice escape from reality; but I now feel like saying something. I am from Wales. My first language is Welsh, as was my parents, grandparents, my wife, children, many friends and the majority of residents where I live. My views are totally shaped by inheriting this ancient language and heritage, which I love deeply. 

    My feelings of patriotism for Wales are influenced by the threat and real possibilty that my culture could dissapear in a generation or two under the tide of British nationslism and anglicisation, be it deliberate or not. I want to stand up and defend my language and culture against this. If it dies in Wales, it’s gone forever. This leads me to having no warm affinity to Britain, or the United Kingdom if Great Britain and Northern Ireland as it’s correctly called, as a state. It’s not personal as I have good English friends. I feel no warmth to GB; I am Welsh. It’s a distinct nation, as is French, Croat or Greek. Perhaps being from a small nation makes is easier to be patriotic without feelings if guilt. I have been reluctant to mention this on the fretboard till now as us welsh speakers are long used to being attacked and put down for speaking our language [gulp] 


    I don't get this ... my father's family are from Wales, my mother's and my wife's from Scotland and I was born in England. The Welsh have their own parliament committed to protecting the Welsh language and heritage. Do you think the English hordes will pour over the border? If the Welsh language does vanish it has more to do with social media platforms, the internet age and a lack of interest from young people in Wales than the English or British nationalism. I'm old and don't get the age of the millennials - the English language constantly changes and evolves and is now full of jargon I don't understand. The French have tried to fight a rearguard action to protect their language and failed. It's now full of English terms mostly from the USA as used in social media. Language evolves. Things change. Apparently we'll all be speaking Chinglish by 2060. I'll be long dead.

    My Welsh relatives are proud to be Welsh but don't speak the language.
    I kind of get both sides. I was born and raised in Wales and still live there, both of my parents were Welsh speakers, my mother was a Welsh teacher. 

    Welsh was compulsory in school, all our assemblies were in Welsh but I'm not (or no longer) a Welsh speaker. To me as a teenager the Welsh language was deeply uncool, it was backwards-looking and it was a waste of time and brain power when I could be learning the languages of people with whom I can't communicate in English. 

    I missed the boat by a couple of years, I left school a few years before S4C started, and decades before being a Welsh speaker could help you get a job.

    Every Welsh person knows the history of how successive governments tried to wipe out the language, and that despite that history, non-Welsh speaking Welsh are treated as if it's their own fault the language was forcibly beaten out of their ancestors. But that's no longer the case, if it dies it will be through natural atrophy.

    In a way, the language has held Wales back on the world stage. Everyone knows what being Scottish is, they're excellent at simply Being Scottish around the world and promoting their national brand, but in Wales our resources are spent on something exclusive and parochial which is of little interest to a huge majority of people who were born here, let alone anywhere else. 

    It's sad, but Wales will always be divided by its language. For those who are still steeped in it at home, while shopping or socialising it will be part of their identity and they cannot (and shouldn't have to) imagine life without it, but a majority in Wales simply don't care, or are even hostile to it due to being made to feel like second-class citizens through no fault of their own. 
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  • MagicPigDetectiveMagicPigDetective Frets: 454
    edited July 13

    It was not my intention to start a debate about the merits of the Welsh language; to be honest I find it difficult to do rationally because it's tied up with strong emotions.  It's here for now whether we like it or not and I'm doing my best to preserve it by passing it on to my children. I was trying to express my personal idea of patriotism, and to show that within the UK, there is a wide diversity of how we identify with the UK state.  I identify myself as Welsh, and not British, and my first language is a large part of my identity. I would never say someone is less Welsh as the don't' speak the language, as that is plainly ridiculous. Welsh identity is a complex matter born out of your life experiences; even among Welsh speakers, we are not one united group as there are many differing opinions, attitudes and identities within it. Interesting points p90fool and of course I understand the other side of the coin. I was raised in mid-wales where the language is not prominent and I was sometimes ashamed or embarrassed to speak it openly, yet now I have a positive attitude to the value of preserving languages, everywhere. To me they are more than a transaction for business, each language is a different way of looking at and seeing the world and should be treasured.

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  • sev112sev112 Frets: 371
    Be proud of everything 
    dont fear anything
    Dont think we are ever better than anyone else

    me, I’ll cheer and support anyone who is nice to me whatever gene type they derive from when the Big Bang happened.
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  • HeartfeltdawnHeartfeltdawn Frets: 10896
    Fretwired said:
    I don't get this ... my father's family are from Wales, my mother's and my wife's from Scotland and I was born in England. 


    I make Jeremy Paxman look like Fingermouse. 
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  • celentiumcelentium Frets: 194
    Sounds bladdy stu-ped to me
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  • FretwiredFretwired Frets: 15799
    edited July 14

    It was not my intention to start a debate about the merits of the Welsh language; to be honest I find it difficult to do rationally because it's tied up with strong emotions.  It's here for now whether we like it or not and I'm doing my best to preserve it by passing it on to my children. I was trying to express my personal idea of patriotism, and to show that within the UK, there is a wide diversity of how we identify with the UK state.  I identify myself as Welsh, and not British, and my first language is a large part of my identity. I would never say someone is less Welsh as the don't' speak the language, as that is plainly ridiculous. Welsh identity is a complex matter born out of your life experiences; even among Welsh speakers, we are not one united group as there are many differing opinions, attitudes and identities within it. Interesting points p90fool and of course I understand the other side of the coin. I was raised in mid-wales where the language is not prominent and I was sometimes ashamed or embarrassed to speak it openly, yet now I have a positive attitude to the value of preserving languages, everywhere. To me they are more than a transaction for business, each language is a different way of looking at and seeing the world and should be treasured.

    You haven't. Nothing wrong with speaking Welsh or wanting to preserve it and Welsh culture in general. As I have written elsewhere I don't think Britishness exits. I just wish we'd bin the concept. Let people celebrate the fact they're Welsh, Scottish, English, Irish, Polish or whatever. Britain is just a construct that in my opinion doesn't work every well these days. Lets celebrate out different cultures .. I'm sure we'd all get on better.
    My pump-action drivel gun is smoking hot today!
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  • underdogunderdog Frets: 5416
    Fretwired said:

    It was not my intention to start a debate about the merits of the Welsh language; to be honest I find it difficult to do rationally because it's tied up with strong emotions.  It's here for now whether we like it or not and I'm doing my best to preserve it by passing it on to my children. I was trying to express my personal idea of patriotism, and to show that within the UK, there is a wide diversity of how we identify with the UK state.  I identify myself as Welsh, and not British, and my first language is a large part of my identity. I would never say someone is less Welsh as the don't' speak the language, as that is plainly ridiculous. Welsh identity is a complex matter born out of your life experiences; even among Welsh speakers, we are not one united group as there are many differing opinions, attitudes and identities within it. Interesting points p90fool and of course I understand the other side of the coin. I was raised in mid-wales where the language is not prominent and I was sometimes ashamed or embarrassed to speak it openly, yet now I have a positive attitude to the value of preserving languages, everywhere. To me they are more than a transaction for business, each language is a different way of looking at and seeing the world and should be treasured.

    You haven't. Nothing wrong with speaking Welsh or wanting to preserve it and Welsh culture in general. As I have written elsewhere I don't think Britishness exits. I just wish we'd bin the concept. Let people celebrate the fact their Welsh, Scottish, English, Irish, Polish or whatever. Britain is just a construct that in my opinion doesn't work every well these days. Lets celebrate out different cultures .. I'm sure we'd all get on better.

    Hard to disagree with that, let people be who they are, and be proud of it. I do sense being proud of being English often comes across to people as a bit EDL where as being proud of being Scottish, Welsh or Irish is expected, I'm not sure why but that is a shame.

    @MagicPigDetective you sound like the welshman I wish I was, I'm very proud of being Welsh, and consider myself Welsh not British but do often feel a bit of a fraud in that I don't speak to the language at all.
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  • Fretwired said:

    It was not my intention to start a debate about the merits of the Welsh language; to be honest I find it difficult to do rationally because it's tied up with strong emotions.  It's here for now whether we like it or not and I'm doing my best to preserve it by passing it on to my children. I was trying to express my personal idea of patriotism, and to show that within the UK, there is a wide diversity of how we identify with the UK state.  I identify myself as Welsh, and not British, and my first language is a large part of my identity. I would never say someone is less Welsh as the don't' speak the language, as that is plainly ridiculous. Welsh identity is a complex matter born out of your life experiences; even among Welsh speakers, we are not one united group as there are many differing opinions, attitudes and identities within it. Interesting points p90fool and of course I understand the other side of the coin. I was raised in mid-wales where the language is not prominent and I was sometimes ashamed or embarrassed to speak it openly, yet now I have a positive attitude to the value of preserving languages, everywhere. To me they are more than a transaction for business, each language is a different way of looking at and seeing the world and should be treasured.

    You haven't. Nothing wrong with speaking Welsh or wanting to preserve it and Welsh culture in general. As I have written elsewhere I don't think Britishness exits. I just wish we'd bin the concept. Let people celebrate the fact their Welsh, Scottish, English, Irish, Polish or whatever. Britain is just a construct that in my opinion doesn't work every well these days. Lets celebrate out different cultures .. I'm sure we'd all get on better.
    Agree with you completely. 
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  • IvanMCIvanMC Frets: 65
    Well, I'll deviate a bit from this and get back to the original idea for a while: I've noticed widespread ignorance in the Americans. Their fiercely patriotic shite may have to do with the fact that they really believe they've been the chosen ones (by God)... mention Kenya and they think it's a kind of trademark or label. Mention Argentina or Brazil and they think it's a city somewhere in Central or South America. Mention New Zealand and they stare at you totally baffled. Say their government might be dishonest ans they might slaughter you. Massive etc. Mention Australia and they do know it's a country but don't remember its exact location (in Europe, indeed). Ignorance is bliss.
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  • ChalkyChalky Frets: 5239
    IvanMC said:
    Well, I'll deviate a bit from this and get back to the original idea for a while: I've noticed widespread ignorance in the Americans. Their fiercely patriotic shite may have to do with the fact that they really believe they've been the chosen ones (by God)... mention Kenya and they think it's a kind of trademark or label. Mention Argentina or Brazil and they think it's a city somewhere in Central or South America. Mention New Zealand and they stare at you totally baffled. Say their government might be dishonest ans they might slaughter you. Massive etc. Mention Australia and they do know it's a country but don't remember its exact location (in Europe, indeed). Ignorance is bliss.
    Over the course of a week I talk to about thirty of them dotted over the US, from Seattle down to California, across through Texas and up through several states up to New York and surrounding states. They are not in any way ignorant.  Nor do they believe they are chosen by God - are you mixing up your Jews with your Americans?

    Ignorance is believing the stereotypes you read about on the internet. 

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  • IvanMCIvanMC Frets: 65
    Ok, I did generalise and stand corrected. However, I've had the experience in the flesh and actually hashed out these differences openly, vocally and in a friendly way: many of them are definitely not good at Geography. Or if you were to mention that there might exist a connection between Central (or even South) American poverty and the American governments they get all huffy. But yeah, I do apologise since I did generalise and indeed I've met lots of great American lads and lasses.
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  • SporkySporky Frets: 12914
    I consider myself British rather than English. One Welsh grandfather, one Scottish... 
    Be your own evil twin. 
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  • BridgehouseBridgehouse Frets: 13598
    Sporky said:
    I consider myself British rather than English. One Welsh grandfather, one Scottish... 
    That explains a lot ;)
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  • ChalkyChalky Frets: 5239
    Sporky said:
    I consider myself British rather than English. One Welsh grandfather, one Scottish... 
    That explains a lot ;)
    Don't worry, we are all mongrels.
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  • SporkySporky Frets: 12914
    edited July 14
    Sporky said:
    I consider myself British rather than English. One Welsh grandfather, one Scottish... 
    That explains a lot
    One mean Northern grandmother, the other a Londoner who didn't so much survive the blitz as stand outside every night swearing at the Luftwaffe and throwing bricks at passing V-bombs. 

    Little wonder, then, that I ooze pure liquid awesome from every pore. When I drive in the country, the rabbits, stoats and weasels rush from the hedgerows to line the road, doff their caps and salute, saying "Oh me, oh my, how privileged we are to see Lord Sporky pass. His mere proximity honours us and brings a little sparkle and razzmatazz into our humdrum lives!". 

    I wear a cape everyday and have my own theme tune which plays whenever I enter a room. It's like a mashup of the Imperial Death March and the theme from Street Hawk, but with more cymbals. A lot more cymbals. 
    Be your own evil twin. 
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  • BridgehouseBridgehouse Frets: 13598
    Sporky said:
    Sporky said:
    I consider myself British rather than English. One Welsh grandfather, one Scottish... 
    That explains a lot
    One mean Northern grandmother, the other a Londoner who didn't so much survive the blitz as stand outside every night swearing at the Luftwaffe and throwing bricks at passing V-bombs. 

    Little wonder, then, that I ooze pure liquid awesome from every pore. When I drive in the country, the rabbits, stoats and weasels rush from the hedgerows to line the road, doff their caps and salute, saying "Oh me, oh my, how privileged we are to see Lord Sporky pass. His mere proximity honours us and brings a little sparkle and razzmatazz into our humdrum lives!". 

    I wear a cape everyday and have my own theme tune which plays whenever I enter a room. It's like a mashup of the Imperial Death March and the theme from Street Hawk, but with more cymbals. A lot more cymbals. 
    Personally, I always thought your modesty was your most redeeming feature.
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  • SporkySporky Frets: 12914
    Personally, I always thought your modesty was your most redeeming feature.
    It's certainly up there with my many other outstanding qualities. 
    Be your own evil twin. 
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  • BridgehouseBridgehouse Frets: 13598
    Sporky said:
    Personally, I always thought your modesty was your most redeeming feature.
    It's certainly up there with my many other outstanding qualities. 
    Indeed, right the way up there...
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  • darthed1981darthed1981 Frets: 1709
    Sporky said:
    Sporky said:
    I consider myself British rather than English. One Welsh grandfather, one Scottish... 
    That explains a lot
    One mean Northern grandmother, the other a Londoner who didn't so much survive the blitz as stand outside every night swearing at the Luftwaffe and throwing bricks at passing V-bombs. 

    Little wonder, then, that I ooze pure liquid awesome from every pore. When I drive in the country, the rabbits, stoats and weasels rush from the hedgerows to line the road, doff their caps and salute, saying "Oh me, oh my, how privileged we are to see Lord Sporky pass. His mere proximity honours us and brings a little sparkle and razzmatazz into our humdrum lives!". 

    I wear a cape everyday and have my own theme tune which plays whenever I enter a room. It's like a mashup of the Imperial Death March and the theme from Street Hawk, but with more cymbals. A lot more cymbals. 
    Can I buy some pot from you...?
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  • SporkySporky Frets: 12914
    No; I have no spare cooking equipment and make regular use of all my pots and pans. 
    Be your own evil twin. 
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  • MagicPigDetectiveMagicPigDetective Frets: 454
    edited July 15
    underdog said:
    Fretwired said:

    It was not my intention to start a debate about the merits of the Welsh language; to be honest I find it difficult to do rationally because it's tied up with strong emotions.  It's here for now whether we like it or not and I'm doing my best to preserve it by passing it on to my children. I was trying to express my personal idea of patriotism, and to show that within the UK, there is a wide diversity of how we identify with the UK state.  I identify myself as Welsh, and not British, and my first language is a large part of my identity. I would never say someone is less Welsh as the don't' speak the language, as that is plainly ridiculous. Welsh identity is a complex matter born out of your life experiences; even among Welsh speakers, we are not one united group as there are many differing opinions, attitudes and identities within it. Interesting points p90fool and of course I understand the other side of the coin. I was raised in mid-wales where the language is not prominent and I was sometimes ashamed or embarrassed to speak it openly, yet now I have a positive attitude to the value of preserving languages, everywhere. To me they are more than a transaction for business, each language is a different way of looking at and seeing the world and should be treasured.

    You haven't. Nothing wrong with speaking Welsh or wanting to preserve it and Welsh culture in general. As I have written elsewhere I don't think Britishness exits. I just wish we'd bin the concept. Let people celebrate the fact their Welsh, Scottish, English, Irish, Polish or whatever. Britain is just a construct that in my opinion doesn't work every well these days. Lets celebrate out different cultures .. I'm sure we'd all get on better.

    Hard to disagree with that, let people be who they are, and be proud of it. I do sense being proud of being English often comes across to people as a bit EDL where as being proud of being Scottish, Welsh or Irish is expected, I'm not sure why but that is a shame.

    @MagicPigDetective you sound like the welshman I wish I was, I'm very proud of being Welsh, and consider myself Welsh not British but do often feel a bit of a fraud in that I don't speak to the language at all.
    No need to feel like that @underdog your a proud Welshman, and as we learnt from Euro 2016, we are #strongertogether smile 
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