Has Modelling Taken over ?

monquixote

I think they've eaten the pro market where loads of touring bands have gone Fractal and the low end market where something like a Katana is an obvious choice, but in the pub band market the HRD is still the go to obvious choice.

That market is tiny though.

John_A

Creed_Clicks said:

I never saw the attraction. I can see the point for sure. I'd definitely use them in a studio environment, but I like the idea of just keeping it basic live. 
Maybe if I was in a touring band, I'd see the benefits...

I think the total opposite.  I gig in a pub covers band and my Helix straight to the desk means I have all the sounds I want and don't have to cart a heavy amp around, and it sounds consistently great.  If I was in a Touring band with the luxury of roadies, decent sound men I'd be running valve heads and 4x12's with a mahoosive pedal board

p90fool

@John_A do you always use your own PA and monitoring setup or are you reliant on PA being supplied? 

John_A

p90fool said:

@John_A do you always use your own PA and monitoring setup or are you reliant on PA being supplied? 

Normally we use our own.  Last week we supported a band and used their PA, apparently it sounded good out front, but was awful through the monitors.  The soundman didnt give a toss.

The main band were a Killers tribute, with guitar, bass drums, 3 vox, sample trigger and 4 keyboards the soundguy disappeared 2 minutes after they came on, all you could hear were drums and main vocals

Maynehead

I'm a valve amp fan(boy) but I have to admit, at the end of the day, if it sounds good it sounds good. Doesn't matter what device is generating that sound.

I think the problem is that all these modelers and profilers are all trying their hardest to replicate the sound of actual valve amps. So by definition they are a copy, and not the real thing.

I recon if someone just come up with a digital amp that sounded awesome in its own right and wasn't trying to be something else, it would make the mental side of making the switch a lot easier.

Fiftyshadesofjay

I’ve used both extensively but use Kemper all the time now. I’ve still got a DSL tucked away at the rehearsal room but honestly I just can’t be bothered to use it.

It sounds slightly better through a cab in the room but when you think about the faff of effects in 4cm, the limited switching options, the need for a noise gate, the extra weight, it only sounded good at high volume and the unpredictable nature of micing it up it just seems pointless. 

It does sound amazing when you crank it through a good cab but every gig I do the guitar goes through the PA anyway so you get zero advantage apart from maybe the feel for yourself onstage. 

p90fool

John_A said:

p90fool said:

@John_A do you always use your own PA and monitoring setup or are you reliant on PA being supplied? 

Normally we use our own.  Last week we supported a band and used their PA, apparently it sounded good out front, but was awful through the monitors.  The soundman didnt give a toss.

The main band were a Killers tribute, with guitar, bass drums, 3 vox, sample trigger and 4 keyboards the soundguy disappeared 2 minutes after they came on, all you could hear were drums and main vocals

This was one of my issues, my Direct-to-desk failsafe default monitor setup ended up with me bringing more gear than my regular rig, just in case I couldn't hear myself. 

gringopig

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ICBM

gringopig said:

... late '70's Fender Twin reverb ... Electrovoice 12" speakers... You could stun a horse with the thing.

You could probably also flatten one with it.

Gadget

I like the hybrid idea.

Keep the valve amps, but feed them into a load / IR box like the Torpedo, Ox, etc.

Better tones than I've had with modellers and a get to keep tasty warm with my lovely valve amps

sweepy

ICBM said:

gringopig said:

... late '70's Fender Twin reverb ... Electrovoice 12" speakers... You could stun a horse with the thing.

You could probably also flatten one with it.

And need a Chiropractor

John_P

When I’m doing live sound,  I’ve started seeing more modelling amps on stage this year and it’s not uncommon for a guitarist to ask me if they can do rather than be mic’ed but they are still the minority in my experience.    Similarly with all the bands I play with, I rarely see anyone else using a modeller live but quite often see a setup like mine where I run an ax8 with an amp - more likely a helix.  
Metal bands are more likely to use a Kemper or helix than lighter rock and pop bands  in my experience but still less than 50%.  

At home I suspect the modellers are more common than real amps as it’s so easy and cheap to get a good sound now - my thr is due a replacement and I’m only looking at modelling combos.  

shaunm

Not for me, at all. When I’ve used a Kemper i think it sounds good but it doesn’t feel like an amp. 

digitalscream

I have absolutely zero problem gigging the Helix direct to PA, or into a power amp and guitar cab, or in 4CM with an amp. At this point, I can't imagine gigging without it at all.

Ultimately, I only use the amp (or my new X88R clone) when I fancy a different flavour, for me there's no practical or quality difference between that and the Helix's modelling into a power amp. There's obviously a noticeable difference in the experience when going direct because I'm reliant on monitors, but in some ways that actually makes life better for me (because I can actually hear myself properly).

roberty

Managed to get UAD 2203 sim sounding more or less identical to my real 2204 in a studio the other week, using the same pedals and similar amp settings. The old technology will endure still I think, through fetishisation as much as anything else

John_A

Gadget said:

I like the hybrid idea.

Keep the valve amps, but feed them into a load / IR box like the Torpedo, Ox, etc.

Better tones than I've had with modellers and a get to keep tasty warm with my lovely valve amps

I’m sure it sounds lovely, but when you have 20 minutes to set up in the dog and duck, it’s not all about tone

John_A

p90fool said:

John_A said:

p90fool said:

@John_A do you always use your own PA and monitoring setup or are you reliant on PA being supplied? 

Normally we use our own.  Last week we supported a band and used their PA, apparently it sounded good out front, but was awful through the monitors.  The soundman didnt give a toss.

The main band were a Killers tribute, with guitar, bass drums, 3 vox, sample trigger and 4 keyboards the soundguy disappeared 2 minutes after they came on, all you could hear were drums and main vocals

This was one of my issues, my Direct-to-desk failsafe default monitor setup ended up with me bringing more gear than my regular rig, just in case I couldn't hear myself. 

Most of the time I use a Db technologies 8” monitor at my feet that weighs about 5kg

Gadget

John_A said:

Gadget said:

I like the hybrid idea.

Keep the valve amps, but feed them into a load / IR box like the Torpedo, Ox, etc.

Better tones than I've had with modellers and a get to keep tasty warm with my lovely valve amps

I’m sure it sounds lovely, but when you have 20 minutes to set up in the dog and duck, it’s not all about tone

I don't gig. If I did, I'd just take a valve amp.

rsvmark

Consider this fellas. Just watching live lounge on BBC4. Almost every act has a keys player with a piano sound. They sound great to my ear at least. Not a Joanna in sight. 

p90fool

rsvmark said:

Consider this fellas. Just watching live lounge on BBC4. Almost every act has a keys player with a piano sound. They sound great to my ear at least. Not a Joanna in sight. 

They do sound great, but pianos are simple, push button instruments. 
Once memory became cheap enough to run several layers of velocity sensitivity they respond to player input just like the real thing. 

Guitars and amps are far more complex and interactive.