Discussion On Reverb - Vintage Strat Market and Prices

What's Hot
guitars4youguitars4you Frets: 4765
An interesting read - Granted not all sales of such guitars go through Reverb, but it is an influential source - All info is fact based on recent sales data - Note sales achieved and not asking prices

https://reverb.com/news/the-vintage-strat-market-by-the-numbers

few interesting features - Vintage Strat Sales on Reverb by Frequency of Production Year - look at this graph and look at the dip for sales for 67, 68 and 71 models - almost as though few made, or far less come to the market

Then the graph for lower sales revenue for a refin and how little  impact it has had on refin's for the 75-79 era - Probably due to the lack of refins offered for sale of this period
0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 1reaction image Wisdom · Share on Facebook Share on Twitter
«1

Comments

  • impmannimpmann Frets: 7537
    Or the number of refin guitars that are passed off as original....
    Never Ever Bloody Anything Ever.

    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 3reaction image Wisdom · Share on Facebook Share on Twitter
  • guitars4youguitars4you Frets: 4765
    impmann said:
    Or the number of refin guitars that are passed off as original....
    that is a valid comment - We all know the market is rife with various forms of bull - either via a case of deliberate intent to mislead or via ignorance
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom · Share on Facebook Share on Twitter
  • newi123newi123 Frets: 360
    Interesting - from may 17, so have prices increased alot since then? Currently looking at 70s strats, and the article seems to show average sunburnt price as $1000 or so. They are all priced way, way above that currently!
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom · Share on Facebook Share on Twitter
  • guitars4youguitars4you Frets: 4765
    newi123 said:
    Interesting - from may 17, so have prices increased alot since then? Currently looking at 70s strats, and the article seems to show average sunburnt price as $1000 or so. They are all priced way, way above that currently!
    The negative with such  a report is as follows :-1: 

    Take a number of 1979 Strats for sale on Reverb

    1) - Mint inc case, tags, 100% original  - with trem

    2) Poor condition or players grade - non trem - changed parts and in need of a refret - no case

    Both will be listed on Reverb as a 1979 Strat - hence one might be £900 and the other £1800 - Such variation in price will distort the info that this Reverb report has told us


    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom · Share on Facebook Share on Twitter
  • impmannimpmann Frets: 7537
    newi123 said:
    Interesting - from may 17, so have prices increased alot since then? Currently looking at 70s strats, and the article seems to show average sunburnt price as $1000 or so. They are all priced way, way above that currently!
    The negative with such  a report is as follows :-1: 

    Take a number of 1979 Strats for sale on Reverb

    1) - Mint inc case, tags, 100% original  - with trem

    2) Poor condition or players grade - non trem - changed parts and in need of a refret - no case

    Both will be listed on Reverb as a 1979 Strat - hence one might be £900 and the other £1800 - Such variation in price will distort the info that this Reverb report has told us


    And both will be overpriced...

    Im old enough to remember when these things were best treated as firewood. Time hasn’t made them any better.

    Theres a reason why we all bought Jap in the 1980s... and then changed the pickups for something better!

    I have yet to play a Fender from 1978-1983 that is better in any measurable way than a Squier CV. And most aren’t as good.
    Never Ever Bloody Anything Ever.

    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 6reaction image Wisdom · Share on Facebook Share on Twitter
  • crunchmancrunchman Frets: 4064
    newi123 said:
    Interesting - from may 17, so have prices increased alot since then? Currently looking at 70s strats, and the article seems to show average sunburnt price as $1000 or so. They are all priced way, way above that currently!


    Remember you are seeing the asking price.  Reverb are seeing the actual selling price.  Some of the ones with a $1500 asking price might eventually sell for much nearer $1000.

    Also, as @guitars4you pointed out, if there aren't huge numbers of them, one or two particularly poor or particularly good examples, or one stupid buyer who pays an inflated asking price, could skew the overall average significantly.

    Actually, let me rephrase that - one buyer who is even more stupid than the type of stupid person who normally buys a 79 Strat could pay a ridiculous asking price.  Anyone with a semblance of a brain will just buy a Mexican Classic Series instead - a much better guitar in every way.

    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom · Share on Facebook Share on Twitter
  • guitars4youguitars4you Frets: 4765
    impmann said:
    newi123 said:
    Interesting - from may 17, so have prices increased alot since then? Currently looking at 70s strats, and the article seems to show average sunburnt price as $1000 or so. They are all priced way, way above that currently!
    The negative with such  a report is as follows :-1: 

    Take a number of 1979 Strats for sale on Reverb

    1) - Mint inc case, tags, 100% original  - with trem

    2) Poor condition or players grade - non trem - changed parts and in need of a refret - no case

    Both will be listed on Reverb as a 1979 Strat - hence one might be £900 and the other £1800 - Such variation in price will distort the info that this Reverb report has told us


    And both will be overpriced...

    Im old enough to remember when these things were best treated as firewood. Time hasn’t made them any better.

    Theres a reason why we all bought Jap in the 1980s... and then changed the pickups for something better!

    I have yet to play a Fender from 1978-1983 that is better in any measurable way than a Squier CV. And most aren’t as good.
    'Time hasn't made them any better' is a true fact

    I had a customer the other day telling me that Hendrix played vintage guitars  - I pointed out that even one of his favourite Strats (The black Monterey 65/66 Strat), was only 1 or 2 years old when he played it - And all the large head stocked 68/69 models he played were new or a year old at best - So effectively they were new guitars - They only became 'vintage' a lot later

    In fact the reason the vintage tag became popular was the further we got into the 70's, the greater the deterioration in what we expected a good Strat to be , so many players went looking for 'older' models - I clearly remember a good pre CBS Strat selling for the same price as a new 78 Strat - Both around £350/370 - Shortly after prices for such used/vintage' went north and stayed there ever since

    I have a used antiqua Strat in stock at the moment - clean enough and all original - but a total dog to play, compared with many other Strats on the market today, from various factories
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom · Share on Facebook Share on Twitter
  • crunchmancrunchman Frets: 4064
     guitars4you said:

    I have a used antiqua Strat in stock at the moment - clean enough and all original - but a total dog to play, compared with many other Strats on the market today, from various factories
    Bet that's not on the description on your website  :)
    3reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 1reaction image Wisdom · Share on Facebook Share on Twitter
  • Philly_QPhilly_Q Frets: 4968
    crunchman said:
     guitars4you said:

    I have a used antiqua Strat in stock at the moment - clean enough and all original - but a total dog to play, compared with many other Strats on the market today, from various factories
    Bet that's not on the description on your website  :)
    It's not, but there's absolutely no bullshit saying how amazing it is, fair play to Mark.
    1reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 1reaction image Wisdom · Share on Facebook Share on Twitter
  • Mark1960Mark1960 Frets: 54
    I think the quality must vary greatly, as I have a cerca 1985 Strat (all original as far as I can tell) which I have had nearly 30 years. It's a dream to play IMHO and sounds great. I have looked at replacing it over the years but have not found anything I prefer, so the year it was produced is not always an accurate guide to the quality of the instrument I think.
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom · Share on Facebook Share on Twitter
  • crunchmancrunchman Frets: 4064
    Mark1960 said:
    I think the quality must vary greatly, as I have a cerca 1985 Strat (all original as far as I can tell) which I have had nearly 30 years. It's a dream to play IMHO and sounds great. I have looked at replacing it over the years but have not found anything I prefer, so the year it was produced is not always an accurate guide to the quality of the instrument I think.
    85 is a very different kettle of fish to a 79
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom · Share on Facebook Share on Twitter
  • Mark1960Mark1960 Frets: 54
    crunchman said:
    Mark1960 said:
    I think the quality must vary greatly, as I have a cerca 1985 Strat (all original as far as I can tell) which I have had nearly 30 years. It's a dream to play IMHO and sounds great. I have looked at replacing it over the years but have not found anything I prefer, so the year it was produced is not always an accurate guide to the quality of the instrument I think.
    85 is a very different kettle of fish to a 79
    In what way (excuse my ignorance)?
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom · Share on Facebook Share on Twitter
  • guitars4youguitars4you Frets: 4765
    Philly_Q said:
    crunchman said:
     guitars4you said:

    I have a used antiqua Strat in stock at the moment - clean enough and all original - but a total dog to play, compared with many other Strats on the market today, from various factories
    Bet that's not on the description on your website  :)
    It's not, but there's absolutely no bullshit saying how amazing it is, fair play to Mark.
    Thanks - Some people buy guitars for all sorts of reasons - I know of a few sales over the last year alone to customers that don't even play

    Plus the perception of a dog and how badly it plays is a matter of opinion - Someone back in 1979 obviously liked it - Just not for me
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom · Share on Facebook Share on Twitter
  • newi123newi123 Frets: 360
    There must be some good 70s strats - good music was recorded on contemporary strats in the 70s!

    I dont think vintage pricing is any reflection of how good the guitars are - its simply supply and demand isnt it? 


    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 1reaction image Wisdom · Share on Facebook Share on Twitter
  • guitars4youguitars4you Frets: 4765
    newi123 said:
    There must be some good 70s strats - good music was recorded on contemporary strats in the 70s!

    I dont think vintage pricing is any reflection of how good the guitars are - its simply supply and demand isnt it? 


    many good examples still prior to 74/75 - but far less good examples after then - Not saying all are bad, but many are just badly built, to heavy, the lacquer is far to thick on a maple board/neck, pick-ups are nothing special to the ears of many - But I've seen a few that have been tweaked/customised to ensure something better as well
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom · Share on Facebook Share on Twitter
  • newi123newi123 Frets: 360
    Cheers - And this is the thing - the reverb article seemed to show 70s strats - so including early 3 bolts of 74 / 75 - as $1000 ish. That seems to now be $3000 ish. So even allowing for offers etc, that's a huge difference! Even the late 70s stuff seems to be more like $2000. Do dealers really take 50%?
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom · Share on Facebook Share on Twitter
  • guitars4youguitars4you Frets: 4765
    edited December 5
    Mark1960 said:
    crunchman said:
    Mark1960 said:
    I think the quality must vary greatly, as I have a cerca 1985 Strat (all original as far as I can tell) which I have had nearly 30 years. It's a dream to play IMHO and sounds great. I have looked at replacing it over the years but have not found anything I prefer, so the year it was produced is not always an accurate guide to the quality of the instrument I think.
    85 is a very different kettle of fish to a 79
    In what way (excuse my ignorance)?
    There is no 1985 USA Strat Standard - They started again in 1987 with the Strat Standard and some had an E4 serial number, as they utilised the last of the old Fullerton serial number decals, whilst waiting for the E8 numbers to arrive

    Without checking, I'm sure the last of the Fullerton USA Vintage series was built in 1984 - Maybe some in 1985 but from Corona - not sure what spec your Strat is - serial number will help with model ID + a USA Vintage series does not say 'made in the USA' on it so easy to identify - But if it is a USA Vintage series you'll find the neck date on the butt end of the neck as the serial number itself does not have a date format within it 
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom · Share on Facebook Share on Twitter
  • crunchmancrunchman Frets: 4064
    Mark1960 said:
    crunchman said:
    Mark1960 said:
    I think the quality must vary greatly, as I have a cerca 1985 Strat (all original as far as I can tell) which I have had nearly 30 years. It's a dream to play IMHO and sounds great. I have looked at replacing it over the years but have not found anything I prefer, so the year it was produced is not always an accurate guide to the quality of the instrument I think.
    85 is a very different kettle of fish to a 79
    In what way (excuse my ignorance)?
    There is no 1985 USA Strat Standard - They started again in 1987 with the Strat Standard and some had an E4 serial number, as they utilised the last of the old Fullerton serial number decals, whilst waiting for the E8 numbers to arrive

    Without checking, I'm sure the last of the Fullerton USA Vintage series was built in 1984 - Maybe some in 1985 but from Corona - not sure what spec your Strat is - serial number will help with model ID + a USA Vintage series does not say 'made in the USA' on it so easy to identify - But if it is a USA Vintage series you'll find the neck date on the butt end of the neck as the serial number itself does not have a date format within it 
    Weren't there Japanese made Fenders in the mid 80s after Fullerton closed and before the US production restarted?  By all accounts they were very well made guitars.

    I remember reading an article in a guitar magazine on the history of Fender and someone at Fender was quoted on their reaction to the first Japanese made Fenders that they got their hands on.  It was then that they realised how far things had slipped towards the end of the CBS Fender era.
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 1reaction image Wisdom · Share on Facebook Share on Twitter
  • Strat54Strat54 Frets: 993
    No US production between Feb 1985 and October 1985. So there are a few January made guitars then some late in the year but it took Corona a while to get up to speed. 
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom · Share on Facebook Share on Twitter
  • Mark1960Mark1960 Frets: 54
    The Serial No. is E406791 does that help to get the date - I always thought it was a 1985, but am perhaps mistaken?
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom · Share on Facebook Share on Twitter
  • guitars4youguitars4you Frets: 4765
    Mark1960 said:
    The Serial No. is E406791 does that help to get the date - I always thought it was a 1985, but am perhaps mistaken?
    without looking at an actual pic I'm close to 100% certain it is a Strat Std and an early one - 1987 they first appeared but they had a load of old serial number decals from the end of the Fullerton days with E4 numbers, so they used these up during 1987 - So yours is a 1987 model - Then in 1988 they started with E8 for 88 - No USA Fender has an E7 serial number
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom · Share on Facebook Share on Twitter
  • Mark1960Mark1960 Frets: 54
    Mark1960 said:
    The Serial No. is E406791 does that help to get the date - I always thought it was a 1985, but am perhaps mistaken?
    without looking at an actual pic I'm close to 100% certain it is a Strat Std and an early one - 1987 they first appeared but they had a load of old serial number decals from the end of the Fullerton days with E4 numbers, so they used these up during 1987 - So yours is a 1987 model - Then in 1988 they started with E8 for 88 - No USA Fender has an E7 serial number

    Ah OK thanks for the info,
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom · Share on Facebook Share on Twitter
  • p90foolp90fool Frets: 9365
    newi123 said:
    There must be some good 70s strats - good music was recorded on contemporary strats in the 70s!
    Not after about 1975. Of course there were good records made where somebody happened to be strumming a late 70s Strat, but if you look at prominent guitar parts played by well known players they're almost exclusively pre-75 and more often than not pre-65. 

    Brand new Strats in the late 1970s were almost universally hated by the most prominent players of the time.

    It was extremely rare to see any influential guitarist using one, in fact I can't recall a single one, with the exception perhaps of a couple that Ritchie Blackmore used with aftermarket pickups.

    Yes, they really were that bad, can you imagine any modern mass produced guitar where a ten year old one is around the same price as a new one?

    'Vintage' has nothing to do with aging or nostalgia, it would just be like having to buy a run of the mill 2008 Strat today to get something decent, and paying 1500 quid for it. 

        
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom · Share on Facebook Share on Twitter
  • peteripeteri Frets: 931
    impmann said:
    newi123 said:
    Interesting - from may 17, so have prices increased alot since then? Currently looking at 70s strats, and the article seems to show average sunburnt price as $1000 or so. They are all priced way, way above that currently!
    The negative with such  a report is as follows :-1: 

    Take a number of 1979 Strats for sale on Reverb

    1) - Mint inc case, tags, 100% original  - with trem

    2) Poor condition or players grade - non trem - changed parts and in need of a refret - no case

    Both will be listed on Reverb as a 1979 Strat - hence one might be £900 and the other £1800 - Such variation in price will distort the info that this Reverb report has told us


    And both will be overpriced...

    Im old enough to remember when these things were best treated as firewood. Time hasn’t made them any better.

    Theres a reason why we all bought Jap in the 1980s... and then changed the pickups for something better!

    I have yet to play a Fender from 1978-1983 that is better in any measurable way than a Squier CV. And most aren’t as good.
    'Time hasn't made them any better' is a true fact

    I had a customer the other day telling me that Hendrix played vintage guitars  - I pointed out that even one of his favourite Strats (The black Monterey 65/66 Strat), was only 1 or 2 years old when he played it - And all the large head stocked 68/69 models he played were new or a year old at best - So effectively they were new guitars - They only became 'vintage' a lot later

    In fact the reason the vintage tag became popular was the further we got into the 70's, the greater the deterioration in what we expected a good Strat to be , so many players went looking for 'older' models - I clearly remember a good pre CBS Strat selling for the same price as a new 78 Strat - Both around £350/370 - Shortly after prices for such used/vintage' went north and stayed there ever since

    I have a used antiqua Strat in stock at the moment - clean enough and all original - but a total dog to play, compared with many other Strats on the market today, from various factories


    Fair plays for being so honest Mark.

    I've played a fair few Antiqua strats, all of them without exception have been everything I don't like about that era - thick, thick polyester everywhere, shocking neck carve and just dead as a doornail.

    I started playing early/mid 80s - none of us had any interest in those era guitars - I was more interested in one of the upmarket Westone guitars (remember them!), or even a Washburn/early Ibanez.

    I do remember a couple of friends having juniors to learn on, and one mate with (from memory) a Vox AC4 which we took apart for fun (I'm sorry).

    Back to Reverb prices - as I've said before, the big problem with these price guides for me is that you see many guitars described as excellent which aren't, and many described as fair or good which are pretty nice actually - it's too subjective

    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom · Share on Facebook Share on Twitter
  • Philly_QPhilly_Q Frets: 4968
    I remember around 1980 a kid - his name was Roger Hopkins - coming to school with a brand new Fender Stratocaster and a little (probably transistor) Fender amp.

    The Strat was natural finish, black scratchplate, maple neck, big headstock.  Subsequent experience tells me it probably weighed 10lbs, had a badly-joined multi-piece body, thick plastic finish and weak pickups, but it didn't stop me thinking it was fucking amazing at the time.

    I'm sure older, more experienced players were aware of Fender's poor quality at the time, but as kids we were blissfully ignorant and just wanted to own one!  Maybe some of that nostalgia helps fuel the current prices, heart ruling the head and all that.
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 1reaction image Wisdom · Share on Facebook Share on Twitter
  • Strat54Strat54 Frets: 993
    Don't forget these late 70's/early 80's Strats are the reason why the vintage Fender guitar market was born. Kind of ironic that that the very cause of the craze is now part of it.
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 1reaction image Wisdom · Share on Facebook Share on Twitter
  • guitars4youguitars4you Frets: 4765
    Strat54 said:
    Don't forget these late 70's/early 80's Strats are the reason why the vintage Fender guitar market was born. Kind of ironic that that the very cause of the craze is now part of it.
    totally agree

    And remember for most of the 70's a used 'golden era' Strat was similar in price to a new 70's model around the £350 mark - In 1978 I brought a Strat with a refin body, but otherwise 100% correct, for around £300 and kept it for many years - The serious price increase started later - Players were not looking to buy an 'actual vintage guitar' in the mid late 70's, just a 60's guitar that they preferred the feel, build and tonal character of - The vintage guitar became a marketing tag that everyone quickly brought into

    And remember that while a number of original and good refin examples could be found in the 70's, a hell of a lot had a brass top nut, 5 way switch, DiMarzio SD1 in the bridge and/or a set of Mighty Mite Brass saddles - Amazing how all of these Strats are now never offered for sale - You tell me the last time you saw such a guitar listed on the web, anywhere - I wonder what has happened to them ???????????????????????
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 1reaction image Wisdom · Share on Facebook Share on Twitter
  • guitars4youguitars4you Frets: 4765
    Philly_Q said:
    I remember around 1980 a kid - his name was Roger Hopkins - coming to school with a brand new Fender Stratocaster and a little (probably transistor) Fender amp.

    The Strat was natural finish, black scratchplate, maple neck, big headstock.  Subsequent experience tells me it probably weighed 10lbs, had a badly-joined multi-piece body, thick plastic finish and weak pickups, but it didn't stop me thinking it was fucking amazing at the time.

    I'm sure older, more experienced players were aware of Fender's poor quality at the time, but as kids we were blissfully ignorant and just wanted to own one!  Maybe some of that nostalgia helps fuel the current prices, heart ruling the head and all that.
    I started full time in the trade in 1978 and as a Sat lad with my dad in 1974 - I recall the first time we had a new Strat in stock in 1976 and yes it was that kid in a candy store moment - Yet quite quickly after this I realised I did  not like the feel and tone of these new Strats, especially those with a maple fingerboard - At the time I did not know why - later you find out why

    It took me years to find out I don't actually dislike a Fender with a maple fingerboard - I just dislike the 70's versions with that treacle thick lacquer and mini frets - As soon as you start selling/playing a good Custom Shop 50's Strat, with a played in maple neck/board, you realise they are nice - So yes I was badly influenced from this 70's era
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 1reaction image Wisdom · Share on Facebook Share on Twitter
  • PhilKingPhilKing Frets: 349
    I have 3 vintage Strats which I bought many years ago.  A 1960 bought in 1982 for £500, a 1963 bought later in 1982 for £325 (it had a couple of issues and had been converted to a humbucker in the bridge).   I then bought a 1957 on the early days of Ebay for $1700, which was a risk at the time as the photos were crap.  It had DiMarzio pickups but otherwise is a great example of a V-neck Strat.  The prices today would really stop me buying anything vintage that I hadn't tried and checked myself. 

    I used to sell new Strats in the mid to late 70's and can tell you that they arrived with issues and all needed setups (including adjusting the neck in the pocket), weighed a ton and had the thick finish on them.  However, in spite of all that, there were some that sounded really nice, especially when they went to the flatpole pickups, there was a really good clean sound available from them.
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 1reaction image Wisdom · Share on Facebook Share on Twitter
  • thebreezethebreeze Frets: 910
    We seem to be talking Strats and like a number of people here I’ve had some experience across the spectrum over the years.  One of my first guitars was a 1981 “the Strat” which I bought new.  That model was a last gasp effort by CBS to try to turn the ship round from what has already been said was pretty woeful guitar making in the mid to late ‘70’s.  I loved that guitar and played it a lot in the early days (I took a 25 yr break from playing) and kept it until last year.  However, since getting back into playing big time and having access to all the modern options I just couldn’t reconcile the weight (it was just under 10lbs) and the skinny neck.  However, it had some amazing tones - some of which are as good as I’ve heard.  It always sounded really, really good that guitar.
    I’ve been lucky to own some really nice Custom Shop Strats in the last eight years or so and there’s no doubt that they are making some really nice guitars.  However, I went “all in” a couple of years ago and bought an original ‘65 from @jimmyguitar and since then I totally “get” the vintage thing.  You may say it’s all psychological and I can’t point to exactly why it’s so, but there is something about these old Strats that even the Custom Shop, despite how good they are, just can’t capture.  This ‘65 sounds exactly how I want a Strat or any guitar to sound in every position (the bridge, unusually, is just pure joyful rock n roll), it’s light and the neck is wonderful to play.  I think there are very good reasons why vintage Strats are sought after and not just from the the rather boring investment side of things.
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom · Share on Facebook Share on Twitter
Sign In or Register to comment.