Les Paul for the uninitiated

BRISTOL86

So after a couple of years of back and forth I’ve finally decided that my loyalties lie in electric land and that as much as I’d love to be a good acoustic player, I just don’t bond with the acoustic guitar.

So, I’m selling my sole acoustic and looking to buy a Les Paul with the proceeds. The budget will be £1500ish, so I’d appreciate some pointers on what to look for, what years are good and bad etc and basically any info at all would be most welcome! FYI the only electrics I’ve played have been Strats or Strat style. 

On that note, should anyone be interested in a few-weeks-old Taylor 322e 12 fret, give me a shout!! Especially if you happen to hve a nice Les Paul you’re looking to move on!!

guitars4you

I'd buy the best used LP Standard or Traditional I could find - More vintage spec'd so none of the recent Standards with an asymmetrical neck profile - Granted there are variations and options within that statement when you look at say a 1995 LP STD v a 2016 LP Traditional - But they are the same/similar ethos

Buy used and you'll get more guitar for your money - Unless you can find any nice new LP's on any dealers special offer/bonk out listings with a good reduction

£1500 and you should find a nice LP

terada

If you can push the budget slightly you’re in used R8 territory. 

To me the custom shop Gibson stuff is miles ahead of the USA line, and worth that little bit extra. But each to their own

BRISTOL86

guitars4you said:

I'd buy the best used LP Standard or Traditional I could find - More vintage spec'd so none of the recent Standards with an asymmetrical neck profile - Granted there are variations and options within that statement when you look at say a 1995 LP STD v a 2016 LP Traditional - But they are the same/similar ethos

Buy used and you'll get more guitar for your money - Unless you can find any nice new LP's on any dealers special offer/bonk out listings with a good reduction

£1500 and you should find a nice LP

Thanks mate. Any particular sort of age/years that I should be focussing on, or any to particularly avoid? 

Will definitely be buying used unless anyone is doing any insane deals?

terada

Also, guitar guitar just got loads of second hand gibsons in. Maybe check them out

fatherchewielewie

terada said:

If you can push the budget slightly you’re in used R8 territory. 

To me the custom shop Gibson stuff is miles ahead of the USA line, and worth that little bit extra. But each to their own

This. I had a 2001 Std and it was really, really good. Then I got an new 2010 R0 and it was just....... fantastic...... still have it. the Std was 'Jason Bourne'; the R0 is 'Bond.... James Bond. Watch out for the two neck profiles: 50s (chunky), and 60s (not chunky). I like not chunky.

guitars4you

BRISTOL86 said:

guitars4you said:

I'd buy the best used LP Standard or Traditional I could find - More vintage spec'd so none of the recent Standards with an asymmetrical neck profile - Granted there are variations and options within that statement when you look at say a 1995 LP STD v a 2016 LP Traditional - But they are the same/similar ethos

Buy used and you'll get more guitar for your money - Unless you can find any nice new LP's on any dealers special offer/bonk out listings with a good reduction

£1500 and you should find a nice LP

Thanks mate. Any particular sort of age/years that I should be focussing on, or any to particularly avoid? 

Will definitely be buying used unless anyone is doing any insane deals?

no one can say a 1995 is better than say 2016 - Matter of preference

However if I had to edge my bet then IMO the best LP Std in many years are the 2002 to 2008 era - More vintage spec'd than others without being an R8 or R9

Also agree with above comments in that if you can move the funds north a touch you might get a used R8 for £2k on a private sale

I don't like the current LP Stds with asymmetrical profile - But clearly some do, so don't dismiss it until you tried it - I'm a grumpy old vintage flavoured fan - Hence my comments

BRISTOL86

Thanks, very helpful advice! I really can’t push the budget much more tbh, I was hoping for £1250-1350 tbh and getting some back but will have to see what comes up and how easily I sell the Taylor! 

johnl

I suspect most responses you'll get here will be variations on "try a load and see what you like" which I'd definitely recommend. That said some basic bits of advice:

1. Avoid pretty much everything from 2015. A number of very unpopular changes were made that year (massively wide fretboards, weird facsimile of Les Paul's signature on the headstock, "Chairman Les" hologram on the rear"). That said if you try one and none of those things bother you they can be had very cheaply.

2. Over the years Gibson have experimented with different methods of weight relief; some of which are shown below:



There's no right or wrong answer there but certainly the lighter and more chambered guitars can sound a bit different to the traditional solid ones. 

3. The Les Paul standard isn't all that standard and for a number of years has been Gibson's testing ground. As such these are where you're more likely to find coil splits or other interesting switching options, modern weight relief, robotuners and so on. The "traditional" is generally more of a traditional spec and the classic is similar to the traditional but usually with more interesting pickup options - i.e. P90s etc.

4. HP vs T. For a while Gibson had two versions of every model in the lineup; the "High Performance" models had a more contoured heel, robotuners and a lot more bling. The traditional models were....more traditional.

5. Almost all models since around 2015ish have had PCBs in place of traditional wiring in the cavity. Worth confirming if this is something likely to bother you (though it's an easy and cheap job to rip it out and replace with a proper loom).

You should easily be able to find a good standard for around the £1000 mark. Mid to late 90s Standards seem to be particularly well-regarded. 

BRISTOL86

Thanks very much John, that’s really useful info!

ICBM

I would get a Traditional. Every single one I've played has been good, unlike some Standards (with or without unnecessary modern 'features') and no Classics, which are the other model often found in that price range (and most of which have hideous snot-green inlays).

The last Trad we had in the shop was a third of the price of an R9 we had at the same time, and apart from not looking as much like a vintage Les Paul, was actually a nicer guitar and sold in about a week. Basically the Trad is the guitar a Standard wishes it was made as...

timmypix

Another point on models - Standard/Classic/Traditional.

As mentioned above, since 2013 the Standard's been the one pushing the boundaries, whether they wanted pushing or not. Traditionals are what you expect a Les Paul to be, and tend to have chunkier necks and slightly less extravagent tops. Classics have plain tops and a slimmer 60s neck, and again, the spec has varied year on year - 2014s have a boost and a master switch, 2017s have proper wiring and are basically a slim neck, plain top Traditional.

Going earlier, 90s-00s Classics are the "1960 Classic" model - name appears to be pulled out of thin air as they're not vintage spec and have hot ceramic pickups, designed to compete with the super strats of the early 90s. Great guitars, but you might not like the pickups or the snot green inlays.

I'm mentioning Classics a lot because I've got one that I love, and they're normally £100-£200 cheaper than the equivalent Standard or Traditional, so can represent good bang for buck. That said, if you shop around and you're not in a rush, you should easily find a nice standard within your ideal budget. 

The Gibson website is a good resource for specs from specific years, especially the last few years of regular changes, so always be sure to have a check if you find one you like the look of. As others have said, 2015 is the only truly divisive year due to the wider neck and soft brass nut, but you may find you like it if you try it.

Also, not sure if you've seen this video Reverb did recently, but it covers some of the basics too
https://reverb.com/uk/news/video-les-paul-standard-vs-studio-vs-traditional-vs-custom-and-beyond

xscaramanga

All you "the Custom Shop is miles ahead" brigade—what do you like about them so much?

I sold a Historic R4 and my only regret is that I didn't ask for more money. I've also played a friend's R9 and spent the whole time wishing I was playing my own Classic Plus instead. I haven't figured out if my Classics are outstanding examples, the Custom Shops I've played are a bit average, or I'm a luddite.

That said, @TimmyO 's R7 is a bit special. But even that just seems to me to be mainly because it's a really great bit of wood, rather than anything particular about the build or spec. I suspect it's like Strats—maybe your chances of finding a great example are better among the Custom Shop ones, but if you play enough of them you can find a gem almost anywhere in the range.

If I were buying a bang-for-buck Les Paul, I'd look for a 90s Studio with an ebony fingerboard. I think they look cool and they're well under a grand.

guitars4you

BRISTOL86 said:

Thanks, very helpful advice! I really can’t push the budget much more tbh, I was hoping for £1250-1350 tbh and getting some back but will have to see what comes up and how easily I sell the Taylor! 

agree with @ICBM comments in that a nice LP Traditional, (which is effectively a vintage flavoured LP Standard and is what the Std should be - hope that makes sense) is a good buy

or as per @timmypix comments - an early LP Classic is worth checking out, especially if the hot ceramic p/ups have already been changed, or your budget will allow them to be changed - These come with a slimmer 60's neck profile

ICBM

jonnyscaramanga said:

All you "the Custom Shop is miles ahead" brigade—what do you like about them so much?

I sold a Historic R4 and my only regret is that I didn't ask for more money. I've also played a friend's R9 and spent the whole time wishing I was playing my own Classic Plus instead. I haven't figured out if my Classics are outstanding examples, the Custom Shops I've played are a bit average, or I'm a luddite.

I think there's just a lot of variation. I don't doubt you've got a good Classic, although personally I've never played one I liked at all. I've never played a bad Trad, but they undoubtedly exist too. I've played good and bad Standards, but that's as likely because I've played far more of them than either of the other two models as because they're inherently more variable,

The R9 in the shop recently was nice enough, but the Trad was better-sounding and playing for a third of the price - unless either appearance or vintage accuracy is what you want as the top priority, in which case the R9 was better.

A friend had two R7 Customs - one was outstanding, the other was only average. For some reason the average one just would not stay in tune either - both things may have been because it had an overly-steep neck angle and high bridge, which is one of the bigger variables with any of them.

p90fool

ICBM said:

I would get a Traditional. Every single one I've played has been good, unlike some Standards (with or without unnecessary modern 'features') and no Classics, which are the other model often found in that price range (and most of which have hideous snot-green inlays).

This. A Traditional is just a proper Les Paul, it looks like one and sounds like one, without the unnecessary stuff on the modern Standards or the two grand extra premium you pay for irrelevant and tiny vintage-correct details on the Historics. 

I flitted around between dozens of good American guitars for 35 years until I bought a Trad goldtop in 2012 and made all my old guitars redundant. 

guitars4you

jonnyscaramanga said:

All you "the Custom Shop is miles ahead" brigade—what do you like about them so much?

I sold a Historic R4 and my only regret is that I didn't ask for more money. I've also played a friend's R9 and spent the whole time wishing I was playing my own Classic Plus instead. I haven't figured out if my Classics are outstanding examples, the Custom Shops I've played are a bit average, or I'm a luddite.

That said, @TimmyO 's R7 is a bit special. But even that just seems to me to be mainly because it's a really great bit of wood, rather than anything particular about the build or spec. I suspect it's like Strats—maybe your chances of finding a great example are better among the Custom Shop ones, but if you play enough of them you can find a gem almost anywhere in the range.

If I were buying a bang-for-buck Les Paul, I'd look for a 90s Studio with an ebony fingerboard. I think they look cool and they're well under a grand.

not sure what age your LP Classic Plus is - But early models were very close to a 1960 LP - Other than the p/ups - If you like the hot ceramic p/ups then fine, but change them for a vintage flavoured paf and you have a 1960 LP Reissue at an affordable price - The early Classic LPP and LPPP have their own sought after fan club, especially if they say LP Model on the headstock

Later and more recently the LP Classic has been 'down graded' within the price range

Zukabak

Are you bothered about it being Gibson?
I would buy (and did) a MIJ model. Have a look at some of the early 80's Japanese ones.. High end copies from Greco (EGF1000/1200/1800) or Tokai (LS80/100), Navigator from ESP.

Depending on model, they were hand made and most have the options that Gibson charge £5k+ for on their 'Historic' range.. 'Old growth' woods (Brazilian Rosewood boards etc), Single piece mahogany backs and necks, thick maple caps, long tenons, hide glue etc etc.

Fifty9

MIJ or if it has to be gibson a 2017 traditional 

HandwrittenHero

Firstly - I've got a sale thread up on here as it so happens (http://thefretboard.co.uk/discussion/152592/fs-gibson-les-paul-traditional-16#latest)

Disclosure in the interest of honesty, but in fairness it's a Les Paul I own because I do like it and it works for me for reasons already covered by others further up the thread...it's only moving on because I actually did wind up with a reissue 1959 (which represents £3k second hand, £4.5k from a dealer for a model someone hasn't already owned) and just can't justify keeping both because they're too similar. The R9 was bought out of inheritance from Grandparent and as a dream instrument, so it's a clear choice obviously!

Gibson do tend to mess around with specs and gimmicks pretty often in the last few years especially. Best bet is as you see any models that catch your interest to try and get a sense of the specs and what forums thought of them for that particular year (although take some of that with a pinch of salt, occasionally you can see absolute Les Paul enthusiasts getting into a frenzy over a logo being half an inch to the left or the colour of inlays!)

If my guitar is of interest, shoot me a message. I'm pretty much set on not posting but not against a meet in middle type of trip etc.

HandwrittenHero

johnl said:

5. Almost all models since around 2015ish have had PCBs in place of traditional wiring in the cavity. Worth confirming if this is something likely to bother you (though it's an easy and cheap job to rip it out and replace with a proper loom).

Think 2016 and 2017 the Standards and Traditionals (in the T models at least...Gibson love a million and 2 models!) had the traditional wiring. Although even then, a lot of people do swap out wiring anyway for 50s wiring which plays better if the plan is to play through a valve amp and control things from the guitar.

FWIW I had a Tribute T for a while which had the PCB, which I can see the appeal of for quickly swapping pickups out as solderless. The downsides are it locks you into quick connect type pickups and if something fails your guitar tech will need to gut it anyway.