Rhythms and poly rhythms ~ with a little Indian spice

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  • Anthony Wellington "Four Levels of Awareness" for a musician.


    Duration 4:32

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  • ClarkyClarky Frets: 2725
    Hey @Clarky - thanks for your advice on breaking it down, and I agree it is fun messing around with time sigs.  I also enjoyed rummaging around your soundclick stuff, thanks for posting that.  Oh and what was wrong with your monitors then ?     ;)

    no worries matey… time sigs are fun and often not explained well.. which is why some folk struggle with them..

    I mixed that track on headphones before I had proper studio monitors..
    play every note as if it were your first
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  • ChrisMusicChrisMusic Frets: 1114
    edited November 2014
    Headphones are great for checking details and nuances, and for spatial stuff in the stereo sound field.
    But there really is no substitute IMHO, for moving some air in the room.  (as long as the room sounds good (neutral) / predictable)
    What do you use for mixing @Clarky ?



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  • ChrisMusicChrisMusic Frets: 1114
    edited November 2014
    Just moving the starting point around in a pattern, you can completely change the feel.

    Anthony Wellington teaches slap bass and rhythm using the "Modes of Rhythm" - well worth watching


    Duration 5:26

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  • ClarkyClarky Frets: 2725
    Headphones are great for checking details and nuances, and for spatial stuff in the stereo sound field.
    But there really is no substitute IMHO, for moving some air in the room.  (as long as the room sounds good (neutral) / predictable)
    What do you use for mixing @Clarky ?


    I have a pair of KRK V6 mk1 monitors..
    nothing mega, but I know how they sound and get pretty ok mixes with them..
    play every note as if it were your first
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  • Thanks for that @Clarky, I am going to need to get something like that soon-ish, along with other recording gear, so it's good to get a recommendation from experienced hands (or should that be ears ?).

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  • ClarkyClarky Frets: 2725
    if you want great value for money mid-sized monitors, Yamaha HS7
    the V6 are more expensive but I don't think they are better..
    play every note as if it were your first
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  • Cheers @Clarky, I appreciate that.  Everything has changed so much since my "past life".  All a wonderful new learning curve.
    I'll get by with a little help from my friends.  Someone should write a song about that...

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  • ClarkyClarky Frets: 2725
    no worries matey…

    back on topic… time sigs..
    when working with the more tricky time sigs, it's pretty easy to make them sound really out there and difficult..
    personally, I love it when even the most difficult sigs / sig combinations are made to sound easy and fluid, just as if you're listening to 4/4..

    play every note as if it were your first
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  • A great western introduction, usage and context of this technique.

    Watch it through
    If you are not used to time sigs and poly-rythms it may just make your head spin a bit.

    It will broaden your rhythmic horizons as a musician ~ guaranteed* ~
    (*pretty much, depending on your music world view and tenacity obviously)

    Introduction ~ by Henrik Andersen


    Duration 7:21

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  • Just moving the starting point around in a pattern, you can completely change the feel.

    Anthony Wellington teaches slap bass and rhythm using the "Modes of Rhythm" - well worth watching


    Duration 5:26
    That's one of those videos where I sit and say 

    "I've been waiting to see this for years".

    Very useful, and something I'm going to use a lot. 
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  • Glad you found that useful @ThePrettyDamned.

    I really appreciate your feedback, it is good to know that some of this is useful for others out there in forum-land.

    It seems so simple when it is laid out like that, visuals always make for easier educational content.  Both he, and Victor, are great for putting this sort of stuff across well, nice personal styles which draw you in and make you feel all this can be done.

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  • Have you ever wondered what 13/4 sounds like ?

    Counting against a metronome from 4/4 - 5/4 - 6/4 - 7/4 through all the variations to 16/4  =  WOW  !


    Duration 2:55

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  • ChrisMusicChrisMusic Frets: 1114
    edited November 2014
    If the previous video didn't make your head spin, and broaden your musical world view, then this one surly will !
    Poly-rhythms and all,    bring it on...

    Tricks and stuff, Juggling with rhythms by Danish guitarist Henrik Andersen ~ 


    Duration 11:04

    www.henrikandersenwebshop.com
    www.henrikandersenmusic.com

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  • ~ A performance of  "Thala", by Danish guitarist Henrik Andersen ~ 

    Just check out that 3 necked acoustic guitar !


    Duration 4:18

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  • Konnakol & Beatbox - 80 BPM

    Subdividing a BEAT in 80 BPM = singing 9 different tempos

    Duration 1:34

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  • If you don’t like Zappa ~ step away from the monitor right now !

    Seriously ~ step away…

    Odd sigs and poly-rhythms can be quite easy listening too, see @Cirrus and @Clarky’s comments earlier in this thread.  So don’t be put off if it’s not your cup of Earl Grey.
    but…

    This is not for the feint hearted, you have been warned.

    Henrik Andersen says:
    “I have painted this sheet music on the wall of my studio because its
    beatifull, intelligent and worth studying. It is inspiring to know that once upon a time - not long ago - a composer, a band and audience existed that could handle this kind of amazing rhythms. 
    It has to be soooo precise.
    Sing a long and you will know what I mean”


    The Black Page ~ Composed by Frank Zappa

    Duration 2:05


    Zappa Plays Zappa : The Black Page #1 & #2

    Zappa Plays Zappa public performance. Special guests Terry Bozzio & Steve Vai explode the scene in this version of the Black Page.

    Duration 6:02

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  • The Black Page ~ Composed by Frank Zappa

    Song Review by François Couture

    One of Frank Zappa's most twisted, complex, challenging compositions, "The Black Page" remains a fan's and a musician's favorite. The piece exists in three forms. Zappa first wrote "The Black Page Drum Solo" sometime in 1976. It was meant to be a feature spot for drummer Terry Bozzio. It was only performed in December 1976 and maybe a few more times in early 1977. The version included on Zappa in New York is complemented by overdubbed percussion tracks. "The Black Page #1" consists of a very precise but highly complex melody written over the arrhythmic drum solo. It is similar to other short ditties from 1972-1976, like "Approximate," "T'Mershi Duweeen" or the "Be-Bop Tango." This version was usually performed together with and immediately after the drum solo and disappeared early in 1977.
    It is "The Black Page #2" that survived the test of time in Zappa's live shows. This rewriting fits the melody to a disco vamp and a 4/4 frame. Easier to dance to, it is nonetheless still very quirky. This one was performed from December 1976 up to the 1988 tour. In the early '80s it often followed "Goblin Girl" (that's called playing the contrasts). During the last tour it was used as a show opener and presented in a slower "new age version" (a recording is found on Make a Jazz Noise Here). "The Black Page #2" was Zappa's favorite from the start and the only version he considered for the ill-fated project Läther, before deciding to include all three on the 1977 live album Zappa in New York.
    The whole three-part suite is a favorite among tribute ensembles stemming from the academic circuit. It is considered as the ultimate test of precision and virtuosity. The Meridian Arts Ensemble, Omnibus Wind Ensemble, and Dangerous Kitchen have all recorded it, following the 1977 versions note by note.


    see also:  Irregular rhythmic groupings

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  • ChrisMusicChrisMusic Frets: 1114
    edited November 2014
    Mattias Eklundh    ~    Art Metal gig/lesson at Freak Guitar Camp 2008

    Mattias does some tunes from Art Metal with Jonas Hellborg and Selvaganesh, who also gives a clinic on the very usable konnakol counting system.

    There is a brilliant section explaining changing tempo in an almost seamless way starting at 29:45 (the song before that, ends up-tempo)


    Duration 1 hour 12 mins

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  • The Black Page ~ Composed by Frank Zappa

    Song Review by François Couture

    One of Frank Zappa's most twisted, complex, challenging compositions, "The Black Page" remains a fan's and a musician's favorite. The piece exists in three forms. Zappa first wrote "The Black Page Drum Solo" sometime in 1976. It was meant to be a feature spot for drummer Terry Bozzio. It was only performed in December 1976 and maybe a few more times in early 1977. The version included on Zappa in New York is complemented by overdubbed percussion tracks. "The Black Page #1" consists of a very precise but highly complex melody written over the arrhythmic drum solo. It is similar to other short ditties from 1972-1976, like "Approximate," "T'Mershi Duweeen" or the "Be-Bop Tango." This version was usually performed together with and immediately after the drum solo and disappeared early in 1977.
    It is "The Black Page #2" that survived the test of time in Zappa's live shows. This rewriting fits the melody to a disco vamp and a 4/4 frame. Easier to dance to, it is nonetheless still very quirky. This one was performed from December 1976 up to the 1988 tour. In the early '80s it often followed "Goblin Girl" (that's called playing the contrasts). During the last tour it was used as a show opener and presented in a slower "new age version" (a recording is found on Make a Jazz Noise Here). "The Black Page #2" was Zappa's favorite from the start and the only version he considered for the ill-fated project Läther, before deciding to include all three on the 1977 live album Zappa in New York.
    The whole three-part suite is a favorite among tribute ensembles stemming from the academic circuit. It is considered as the ultimate test of precision and virtuosity. The Meridian Arts Ensemble, Omnibus Wind Ensemble, and Dangerous Kitchen have all recorded it, following the 1977 versions note by note.


    see also:  Irregular rhythmic groupings
    I went to a workshop by Terry Bozzio once and he told an anecdote about black page. One part of it is 5-tuplets I think in 5/4 over 4/4 polyrhythm. Anyway apparently Zappa based it on an improvised jam or solo that Bozzio played and when Zappa first presented the manuscript to Bozzio, Bozzio said there was no way he would ever be able to play, to which Zappa replied that he played it last week or something similar.

    Crazy talented drummer!


    This is my rant thread, there are others like it, but this one is mine.
    Bet you're wondering if this is a flounce? Truth is I haven't decided yet.
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  • Talented drummer indeed, but then Frank Z had a way of surrounding himself with the best musicians.

    Lovely story, shows what inspiration we are capable of when it is just flowing out of us, and the constraints we put on when we stop to think about it.

    Thanks for posting that @PolarityMan.

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  • If anyone wants to get a closer look at Henrik Andersen's unusual 3 necked, and 3 additional harp / droned, acoustic guitar:


    "SHANGHAI"


    Duration 9:14

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  • Dean Brown: Polyrhythms

    Duration 12:42

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  • Polyrhythms For Dummies


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  • Guthrie Govan - Culture Clash - Full Explanation



    & another explanation



    The Making Of The Aristocrats' Culture Clash



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  • Well I have just moved this into the technique section, which is where it really belongs TBH.

    I do hope this discussion has been of use to some of you good FretBoardians.

    Happy Christmas y'all,   Chris      :)

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  • kinkin Frets: 521
    thanks for all your posts on this and the theory thread Chris, interesting stuff
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  • My pleasure @kin

    Merry Christmas and happy guitar journeys  :)

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  • BarneyBarney Frets: 336
    Im going to put some time aside to listen to all this thread..but heres some interesting stuff from John Mclaughlin
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  • Great video, cheers for that @Barney.

    I'll have to check out the rest of that series (and maybe post them here as a centralised resource).

    Good to hear a direct translation into guitar playing too.

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