1 Chord Minor, 4 Chord Minor, 5 Chord Major??

Rayza1983

I was watching a video on surfer rock chord progressions and the tutor played this progression 1 Chord Emin, 4 Chord Amin, 5 Chord B. I've only really learnt the major minor scales and I always though the 1 4 5 chords in the Major scale are major and the 1 4 5 in the natural minor are all Minor. Could someone help me understand how he the 5 chord can be major in his minor chord progression and work. I know it'll be simple but I cant seem to find the info or word it. What scale would you use to this progression

Rayza1983

Thinking melodic minor now?

octatonic

A minor blues would generally have a V7 chord.

A V chord that is major can be considered as part of that approach (if you like), so mixolydian over the V chord is a good way to do it.

Trying to find a single scale that fits all 3 chords is a path to 'boring blues solo land' and I suggest you find an alternate path.

Targeting chord tones is the way to go.

bingefeller

Over this progression I would use E Aeolian over the Em and Am chords and then, over the B chord, I would probably be thinking about F# minor Dorian or F# whole tone if I wanted to get an outside sound.  

Rayza1983

I agree I've just come to understand the chords fitting over the scale positions, so by chord tones you mean just playing the notes of the chord you are playing over? thanks for your reply

Rayza1983

so bingfella that is to learn modes yes?

Rayza1983

bingefeller said:

Over this progression I would use E Aeolian over the Em and Am chords and then, over the B chord, I would probably be thinking about F# minor Dorian or F# whole tone if I wanted to get an outside sound.  

viz

E harmonic minor fits all chords obviously - that's what it's 'invented' for (so that the Dominant chord V can be a MAJOR chord, so that with its leading note it can allow resolution back to the I)- but I'd be inclined to use E melodic minor for soloing, including over the B of course (though avoid the 6 during the A minor). Otherwise I'd go for natural minors over the E and A, and move to B super locrian over the V.

bingefeller

@Rayza1983 each method described is just really a means to an end.  Learning the modes certainly would be helpful but I think that knowing the minor pentatonic scales all over the neck in all keys would be a great place to start and you would see how the shapes of the pentatonic scale fit into shapes of the modes.

Rayza1983

viz said:

E harmonic minor fits all chords obviously - that's what it's 'invented' for - but I'd be inclined to use E melodic minor for soloing, including over the B of course (though avoid the 6 during the A minor). Otherwise I'd go for natural minors over the E and A, and move to B super locrian over the V.

I've messed about over the e minor a minor b major and im always coming to the 6 when I come to the b major so im hearing it right. much to learn for me yet tho but glad I can at least hear it, thanks for your help

bingefeller

Rayza1983 said:

viz said:

E harmonic minor fits all chords obviously - that's what it's 'invented' for - but I'd be inclined to use E melodic minor for soloing, including over the B of course (though avoid the 6 during the A minor). Otherwise I'd go for natural minors over the E and A, and move to B super locrian over the V.

I've messed about over the e minor a minor b major and im always coming to the 6 when I come to the b major so im hearing it right. much to learn for me yet tho but glad I can at least hear it, thanks for your help

Try F# minor pentatonic over the B chord.  

Rayza1983

bingefeller said:

Rayza1983 said:

viz said:

E harmonic minor fits all chords obviously - that's what it's 'invented' for - but I'd be inclined to use E melodic minor for soloing, including over the B of course (though avoid the 6 during the A minor). Otherwise I'd go for natural minors over the E and A, and move to B super locrian over the V.

I've messed about over the e minor a minor b major and im always coming to the 6 when I come to the b major so im hearing it right. much to learn for me yet tho but glad I can at least hear it, thanks for your help

Try F# minor pentatonic over the B chord.  

Yo bingefeller just tried it and it works sweet thanks, how come it works over the b major then?

Rayza1983

bingefeller said:

Rayza1983 said:

viz said:

E harmonic minor fits all chords obviously - that's what it's 'invented' for - but I'd be inclined to use E melodic minor for soloing, including over the B of course (though avoid the 6 during the A minor). Otherwise I'd go for natural minors over the E and A, and move to B super locrian over the V.

I've messed about over the e minor a minor b major and im always coming to the 6 when I come to the b major so im hearing it right. much to learn for me yet tho but glad I can at least hear it, thanks for your help

Try F# minor pentatonic over the B chord.  

Yo bingefeller just tried it and it works sweet thanks, how come it works over the b major then?

bingefeller

Rayza1983 said:

bingefeller said:

Rayza1983 said:

viz said:

E harmonic minor fits all chords obviously - that's what it's 'invented' for - but I'd be inclined to use E melodic minor for soloing, including over the B of course (though avoid the 6 during the A minor). Otherwise I'd go for natural minors over the E and A, and move to B super locrian over the V.

I've messed about over the e minor a minor b major and im always coming to the 6 when I come to the b major so im hearing it right. much to learn for me yet tho but glad I can at least hear it, thanks for your help

Try F# minor pentatonic over the B chord.  

Yo bingefeller just tried it and it works sweet thanks, how come it works over the b major then?

You can sometimes play a minor pentatonic from the 5th degree if a major chord and F# is the 5th of B.  It doesn't always work, but works in a lot of situations.  

viz

Yes, you're effectively playing b minor penta, but instead of the minor 3rd, you're playing a major 2nd. So it's not a minor scale because it's missing the 3rd, so it works over B major.

Rayza1983

bingefeller said:

@Rayza1983 each method described is just really a means to an end.  Learning the modes certainly would be helpful but I think that knowing the minor pentatonic scales all over the neck in all keys would be a great place to start and you would see how the shapes of the pentatonic scale fit into shapes of the modes.

ive learnt the 5 shapes and know all roots etc, I know the major pentatonic and then ive added the 2 extra notes so ive sussed I now know the major and natural minor. I know that by root shifting that is modes? its slowly coming together, ive just started visualising the chord shapes over the scale patterns too

Clarky

I'd be inclined to goof with:

Chord I: Em - use key of Em or E Dorian [could sound pretty cool because note 6 = C#, this will switch to C when chord IV shows up]

Chord IV: Am - use key of Em

Chord V: B - use E harm min or E mel min

Phil_aka_Pip

F#- pent = F#(R) A(b3) B (4) C#(5) E(b7)

wrt B that is F#(5) A(b7) B(R) C#(2) E(4)

so as @viz says, you have most of the notes required to characterise the B dominant chord. These notes are also present in the B mixolydian scale (the 5th mode of E major), and in the 5th mode of E melodic minor (whatever that's called).

I'd be tempted to use E harmonic minor (R 2 b3 4 5 b6 7) ie E F# G A B C D# throughout because it maps exactly onto Em Am & Bdominant chords.

viz

Phil_aka_Pip said:

F#- pent = F#(R) A(b3) B (4) C#(5) E(b7)

wrt B that is F#(5) A(b7) B(R) C#(2) E(4)

so as @viz says, you have most of the notes required to characterise the B dominant chord. These notes are also present in the B mixolydian scale (the 5th mode of E major), and in the 5th mode of E melodic minor (whatever that's called).

I'd be tempted to use E harmonic minor (R 2 b3 4 5 b6 7) ie E F# G A B C D# throughout because it maps exactly onto Em Am & Bdominant chords.

5th mode mel minor: sometimes called the hindu scale (starts major, finishes minor, sort of like the opposite of melodic minor ascending). Like C D E F G Ab Bb C. A beautiful construct to write and play within.

GuyBoden

Here's the three basic minor scales commonly used for creating chords for minor harmony.

These chords are built using every third note of the scale, so are called Tertiary chords.

bloodandtears

Aren't those the essentially the Babooshka (Kate Bush) intro chords?