Attenuators, do you use one?

ThePrettyDamned · January 2017

hotpickups said:

ThePrettyDamned said:

ICBM said:

hotpickups said:

Any other suggestions you have had experience with for that type of amp? Or is it not as picky with attenuaters ?

They seem to like the purely resistive ones - it seems to be common with amps with no negative feedback. The Dr.Z Airbrake and Brake Lite seem to work well, although in my opinion they're overpriced for what they are (the Lite especially).

I'm actually after a cheap attenuator for the ac15. I would assume the harley benton/jettenuator (they look the same) are ideal, as I'm assuming they're purely resistive?

For the price it seems pretty good. I think I might take a look at one. Apparetly Tone King are bringing a new Ironman II out soon. Cheap it won't be though

I built a resistive attenuator for 5w amps and it worked great - with an l-pad.

I think ICBM is right - certain types of attenuator work well with certain amps. I know the "ultimate attenuator", which did the rounds a while back, is an actual piece of poo in terms of build and is actually dangerous... But it probably sounds good with some amps nonetheless.

wellsyboy · January 2017

hotpickups said:

ICBM said:

hotpickups said:

Any other suggestions you have had experience with for that type of amp? Or is it not as picky with attenuaters ?

They seem to like the purely resistive ones - it seems to be common with amps with no negative feedback. The Dr.Z Airbrake and Brake Lite seem to work well, although in my opinion they're overpriced for what they are (the Lite especially).

At least they're cheaper than the Ironman II

Actually I've just remembered the Swart Night Light

IMHO for home use the Iron man II is better than the Swart Night Light

wellsyboy · January 2017

hotpickups said:

ThePrettyDamned said:

ICBM said:

hotpickups said:

Any other suggestions you have had experience with for that type of amp? Or is it not as picky with attenuaters ?

They seem to like the purely resistive ones - it seems to be common with amps with no negative feedback. The Dr.Z Airbrake and Brake Lite seem to work well, although in my opinion they're overpriced for what they are (the Lite especially).

I'm actually after a cheap attenuator for the ac15. I would assume the harley benton/jettenuator (they look the same) are ideal, as I'm assuming they're purely resistive?

For the price it seems pretty good. I think I might take a look at one. Apparetly Tone King are bringing a new Ironman II out soon. Cheap it won't be though

hi @hotpickups - where did you hear about the new iron man II?

hubobulous · January 2017

I use the Two Notes Live, Rockcrusher, Suhr Reactive and Rockcrusher Recording. All of these with a variety of amps, all of them great.

ICBM · January 2017

ThePrettyDamned said:

I'm actually after a cheap attenuator for the ac15. I would assume the harley benton/jettenuator (they look the same) are ideal, as I'm assuming they're purely resistive?

Yes, they appear to be.

hotpickups · January 2017

wellsyboy said:

hotpickups said:

ThePrettyDamned said:

ICBM said:

hotpickups said:

Any other suggestions you have had experience with for that type of amp? Or is it not as picky with attenuaters ?

They seem to like the purely resistive ones - it seems to be common with amps with no negative feedback. The Dr.Z Airbrake and Brake Lite seem to work well, although in my opinion they're overpriced for what they are (the Lite especially).

I'm actually after a cheap attenuator for the ac15. I would assume the harley benton/jettenuator (they look the same) are ideal, as I'm assuming they're purely resistive?

For the price it seems pretty good. I think I might take a look at one. Apparetly Tone King are bringing a new Ironman II out soon. Cheap it won't be though

hi @hotpickups - where did you hear about the new iron man II?

I think I read it on their Facebook page from NAMM ? Adding a footswitch for a solo boost like the Mini does I think

hotpickups · January 2017

ICBM said:

ThePrettyDamned said:

I'm actually after a cheap attenuator for the ac15. I would assume the harley benton/jettenuator (they look the same) are ideal, as I'm assuming they're purely resistive?

Yes, they appear to be.

Is that a bad thing?

ThePrettyDamned · January 2017

hotpickups said:

ICBM said:

ThePrettyDamned said:

I'm actually after a cheap attenuator for the ac15. I would assume the harley benton/jettenuator (they look the same) are ideal, as I'm assuming they're purely resistive?

Yes, they appear to be.

Is that a bad thing?

Nope. Not with the right amp.

There isn't a "best" attenuator and any brand that says theirs is is lying. Try a few types out in one amp and you'll have a favourite - for that amp. Try the same ones into a different amp type (say, a fender blackface instead of a vox ac15) and your favourite will change.

I'll leave the technical stuff to @icbm though.

A lot of professional reviews seem not to mention this,but it's really obvious if you try it. I compared a thd to a Marshall power brake in store on a Laney gh50 and the thd was utter pants, making the amp sound congested. But apparently they work really well with fender style circuits.

hotpickups · January 2017

ThePrettyDamned said:

hotpickups said:

ICBM said:

ThePrettyDamned said:

I'm actually after a cheap attenuator for the ac15. I would assume the harley benton/jettenuator (they look the same) are ideal, as I'm assuming they're purely resistive?

Yes, they appear to be.

Is that a bad thing?

Nope. Not with the right amp.

There isn't a "best" attenuator and any brand that says theirs is is lying. Try a few types out in one amp and you'll have a favourite - for that amp. Try the same ones into a different amp type (say, a fender blackface instead of a vox ac15) and your favourite will change.

I'll leave the technical stuff to @icbm though.

A lot of professional reviews seem not to mention this,but it's really obvious if you try it. I compared a thd to a Marshall power brake in store on a Laney gh50 and the thd was utter pants, making the amp sound congested. But apparently they work really well with fender style circuits.

Well I couldn't afford to buy and sell off various attenuators before I'm happy with one

I guess all I'm looking at personally is to reduce volume for home playing. I'd love an Ironman Mini but so expensive

webrthomson · January 2017

I use an attenuator with my dual recto - but in my Marshall JMP I've got a post phase inverter master volume (PPIMV) installed which I have to say is a much better solution for that amp. It makes it way more versatile and if you want it to sound original you simply max it J

I'd look into the PPIMV for the JTM as well – you can generally get them fitted in such a way as to be reversible without drilling holes in the amp.

ThePrettyDamned · January 2017

hotpickups said:

ThePrettyDamned said:

hotpickups said:

ICBM said:

ThePrettyDamned said:

I'm actually after a cheap attenuator for the ac15. I would assume the harley benton/jettenuator (they look the same) are ideal, as I'm assuming they're purely resistive?

Yes, they appear to be.

Is that a bad thing?

Nope. Not with the right amp.

There isn't a "best" attenuator and any brand that says theirs is is lying. Try a few types out in one amp and you'll have a favourite - for that amp. Try the same ones into a different amp type (say, a fender blackface instead of a vox ac15) and your favourite will change.

I'll leave the technical stuff to @icbm though.

A lot of professional reviews seem not to mention this,but it's really obvious if you try it. I compared a thd to a Marshall power brake in store on a Laney gh50 and the thd was utter pants, making the amp sound congested. But apparently they work really well with fender style circuits.

Well I couldn't afford to buy and sell off various attenuators before I'm happy with one I guess all I'm looking at personally is to reduce volume for home playing. I'd love an Ironman Mini but so expensive

Might suck with your amp anyway. What amp are you attenuating?

hotpickups · January 2017

ThePrettyDamned said:

hotpickups said:

ThePrettyDamned said:

hotpickups said:

ICBM said:

ThePrettyDamned said:

I'm actually after a cheap attenuator for the ac15. I would assume the harley benton/jettenuator (they look the same) are ideal, as I'm assuming they're purely resistive?

Yes, they appear to be.

Is that a bad thing?

Nope. Not with the right amp.

There isn't a "best" attenuator and any brand that says theirs is is lying. Try a few types out in one amp and you'll have a favourite - for that amp. Try the same ones into a different amp type (say, a fender blackface instead of a vox ac15) and your favourite will change.

I'll leave the technical stuff to @icbm though.

A lot of professional reviews seem not to mention this,but it's really obvious if you try it. I compared a thd to a Marshall power brake in store on a Laney gh50 and the thd was utter pants, making the amp sound congested. But apparently they work really well with fender style circuits.

Well I couldn't afford to buy and sell off various attenuators before I'm happy with one I guess all I'm looking at personally is to reduce volume for home playing. I'd love an Ironman Mini but so expensive

Might suck with your amp anyway. What amp are you attenuating?

Lazy J20

Exorcist · January 2017

@hotpickups Where abouts are you? If your anywhere near Chelmsford your welcome to borrow my jettenuator.

hotpickups · January 2017

Exorcist said:

@hotpickups Where abouts are you? If your anywhere near Chelmsford your welcome to borrow my jettenuator.

Damn that would've been handy but unfortunately I'm in Bath so quite a distance

Image: http://www.thefretboard.co.uk/plugins/EmojiExtender/emoji/fb/2.gif

Thanks for the offer though

ThePrettyDamned · January 2017

Maybe ask around on opinions on attenuators on Tweed deluxe amps. I've never tried attenuating anything tweedy, but there will probably be a stand out method- then find the attenuators that use that method of a suitable power rating, then go for the one in budget.

Hopefully @icbm has some experience with them - he originally advised me and saved me a fortune exploring other options.

hotpickups · January 2017

ThePrettyDamned said:

Maybe ask around on opinions on attenuators on Tweed deluxe amps. I've never tried attenuating anything tweedy, but there will probably be a stand out method- then find the attenuators that use that method of a suitable power rating, then go for the one in budget.

Hopefully @icbm has some experience with them - he originally advised me and saved me a fortune exploring other options.

Thanks. This is why I thought of the Swart Night Lite as their amps are Tweedy style which they are built for etc

Cirrus · January 2017

In the past I found my AC30 preferred a Dr Z brake Lite to a THD Hotplate.

I have a Hotplate now for use with my Mesa, but I only plug it in when I have to - The amp's got a pretty wide volume sweet spot so I only really need it when I need to go low enough that things get a bit flat and fizzy. I've been playing around with using it as a load in parallel with the speakers, but that doesn't really shave off enough volume to be useful.

I think that for many amps when the issue is just taming the volume a little, using the master volume and just adjusting the preamp gain and tone controls to compensate is usually the best sounding solution, followed by creative positioning - don't point the amp at the sound guy, turn it round if times get tough. This is a club gigger's perspective though.

Marktigere1 · January 2017

Yes I use my Jettenuator all the time.
Either playing or recording.
Amps are Jetcity JCA22H and Blackheart 15H.
Both work well with it but the best sound is always around halfway on volume.
Its a great unit for my use.

ICBM · January 2017

webrthomson said:

I use an attenuator with my dual recto

It's the right solution with one of those - anything else doesn't get you the proper sag from the valve rectifier.

webrthomson said:
I'd look into the PPIMV for the JTM as well – you can generally get them fitted in such a way as to be reversible without drilling holes in the amp.

Yes, by fitting them in the second speaker jack - since you aren't going to need two cabinets if your goal is to reduce the volume.

ThePrettyDamned said:

Maybe ask around on opinions on attenuators on Tweed deluxe amps. I've never tried attenuating anything tweedy, but there will probably be a stand out method- then find the attenuators that use that method of a suitable power rating, then go for the one in budget.

Hopefully @icbm has some experience with them - he originally advised me and saved me a fortune exploring other options.

In my experience, the Tweed Deluxe-type circuit seems to work best with a resistive attenuator. This is probably because it doesn't have negative feedback, and that seems to be a common correlation.

Cirrus said:

In the past I found my AC30 preferred a Dr Z brake Lite to a THD Hotplate.

Likewise - the AC30 has no NFB.

If there is a rough rule of thumb, it's that it seems that no-NFB amps are best with resistive attenuators, 6L6 amps (which seem to often prefer a low mismatch to a high one when driven hard) prefer the THD Hotplate, and EL34 amps (which seem to prefer a high mismatch) are better with the Marshall Powerbrake. This is a *very* rough* guide, overly simplified regarding valve types, and there are likely to be exceptions, and there are many other attenuators… so that's about as clear as mud

.

The differences between them are mostly in the way their impedance curve diverges from that of a real speaker, which is not constant at all frequencies. Resistive attenuators don't have a 'curve' as such, although sometimes they present a slightly different impedance at different settings, which you may need to take account of.

The real problem is that they're a fairly big investment, at least for the higher-power ones, so it's not very convenient to try several until you find the right one.

the_jaffa · January 2017

Does anyone have any thoughts on an attenuator that would work well with a 68 Custom Vibrolux? Would the Jettenuator be a sensible option?

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Attenuators, do you use one?

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