Neck shim

Bridgehouse · April 2017

(Don't worry @ICBM - normal service of bowing to your superior knowledge will resume shortly)

ICBM · April 2017

Bridgehouse said:

I've had guitars and basses with short non-wood shims in, taken them out, put a full length wood shim in and they have instantly felt, played, and sounded better.

No matter how you look at it, if you have a neck shim with an air gap, 4 screws are going to pull the neck into the pocket in a way which ultimately one way or another puts tension on one point more than others. With a full length wood shim the tension is going to be more evenly balanced.

I really don't buy your "they eliminate all contact" - in that case a layer of paint or lacquer eliminates all contact. And a shim probably gives you about 10% of the neck actually contacting the pocket. Cork sniffing, 'magic vibration sound transfer', 'shims made of special unicorn poo' aside.. a short shim at one end of the neck pocket is just down right bad engineering.

I've recently been working on a very high-end acoustic guitar where the neck is attached to the body by just three contact points - all brass - with the rest entirely non-contacting, and it sounds fantastic, so clearly the idea that you need a full contact between the neck and the body is wrong.

But whether it is or not, I've never liked the sound of a full-length wood shim. I have made a few for people who have asked too - every one of them killed the tone of the guitar… and every time I've removed one someone else fitted and used a standard end shim it's always improved it. Perhaps 'better' is in the ear of the beholder though, your better might be my worse and vice versa

.

Bridgehouse · April 2017

ICBM said:

I've recently been working on a very high-end acoustic guitar where the neck is attached to the body by just three contact points - all brass - with the rest entirely non-contacting, and it sounds fantastic, so clearly the idea that you need a full contact between the neck and the body is wrong.

But whether it is or not, I've never liked the sound of a full-length wood shim. I have made a few for people who have asked too - every one of them killed the tone of the guitar… and every time I've removed one someone else fitted and used a standard end shim it's always improved it. Perhaps 'better' is in the ear of the beholder though, your better might be my worse and vice versa .

I'm sure it's a matter of sample variation as well tho. I'm not saying you *have* to have full contact - but there are a few instances in the past where non-full contact has been a bit, um, suspect too... *cough* micro-tilt *cough*

Both the 74 P and the 64 P had neck shims in - both looked like they had been there a while.. I removed them from both when setting up, and despite the saddles bottoming out, *to me* they instantly had more snap, more sustain, and more roundness in tone.

Put the shim back in, and it lost that...

So I ordered a full length wood set and tried one in each - got the snap and sustain and roundness back I had when they were without a shim at all. Not completely, but a lot more than with a short shim.

I know we are talking about thousandth's of an inch, but for me, I don't like the idea of a neck being clamped on by 4 wood screws to effectively two very thin pivot points (edge of shim, edge of neck pocket) - sounds like a recipe for movement and stress on those 4 screws...

guitarfishbay · April 2017

@ICBM just curious, do you use micro tilt if available or do you prefer to use a standard shim?

ICBM · April 2017

guitarfishbay said:

@ICBM just curious, do you use micro tilt if available or do you prefer to use a standard shim?

Micro-tilt.

bbill335 · April 2017

Bridgehouse said:

No matter how you look at it, if you have a neck shim with an air gap, 4 screws are going to pull the neck into the pocket in a way which ultimately one way or another puts tension on one point more than others. With a full length wood shim the tension is going to be more evenly balanced.

I really don't buy your "they eliminate all contact" - in that case a layer of paint or lacquer eliminates all contact. And a shim probably gives you about 10% of the neck actually contacting the pocket. Cork sniffing, 'magic vibration sound transfer', 'shims made of special unicorn poo' aside.. a short shim at one end of the neck pocket is just down right bad engineering.

Short shims on fenders from the 60s seem to have worked fine for half a century

Bridgehouse · April 2017

bbill335 said:

Bridgehouse said:

No matter how you look at it, if you have a neck shim with an air gap, 4 screws are going to pull the neck into the pocket in a way which ultimately one way or another puts tension on one point more than others. With a full length wood shim the tension is going to be more evenly balanced.

I really don't buy your "they eliminate all contact" - in that case a layer of paint or lacquer eliminates all contact. And a shim probably gives you about 10% of the neck actually contacting the pocket. Cork sniffing, 'magic vibration sound transfer', 'shims made of special unicorn poo' aside.. a short shim at one end of the neck pocket is just down right bad engineering.

Short shims on fenders from the 60s seem to have worked fine for half a century

Try telling my Precision that

DLM · April 2017

guitarfishbay said:

DLM said:

It'll not help with the action, but: different lengths of saddle-height-adjustment allen bolt are available. I use shorter ones on the E strings to allow for the fretboard radius.

This is not correct.

@guitarfishbay I think you misunderstood my admittedly somewhat obtuse punctuation. I was proposing a solution for over-long saddle-height-adjustment allen bolts: get shorter ones. "It", in my sentence, did not refer to the OP's thread title (i.e. shimming), but to what followed the colon I used.

guitarfishbay · April 2017

DLM said:

guitarfishbay said:

DLM said:

It'll not help with the action, but: different lengths of saddle-height-adjustment allen bolt are available. I use shorter ones on the E strings to allow for the fretboard radius.

This is not correct.

@guitarfishbay I think you misunderstood my admittedly somewhat obtuse punctuation. I was proposing a solution for over-long saddle-height-adjustment allen bolts: get shorter ones. "It", in my sentence, did not refer to the OP's thread title (i.e. shimming), but to what followed the colon I used.

I see it now, my eyes must not have been working properly before!

DLM · April 2017

'Sokay, it was earlier for you than it was for me!

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