would you really notice any difference if you could afford to buy a vintage guitar?

Monstronaut · May 2014

I've been lucky enough to own several vintage guitars and currently own a 63 strat, 63 sg, '56 les paul junior & Ive just picked up an early '65 335. They are all 'player grade' and every one of them cost me less than a modern reissue. As someone said I think the woods used were lighter and more resonant then but not necessarily better built. Most guitars are only a setup/refret away from being great. I dont care about the vintage market. I love great guitars that look cool.

usedtobe · May 2014

Even with a lottery win, I wouldn't go for the 50's Gibson/Fender thing. I'm just not that interested, and I think a lot of it's just hype.. I'm a fairly shit player, and I suspect the guitars are stupidly overpriced. At the end of the day, they're just guitars, y' know.. I can sound just as shit for £150 as I can for £100k, or whatever they go for...??

57Deluxe · May 2014

...does anyone want to buy my old slippers? They are well worn-in and have a lovely patina..

http://media-cache-ec0.pinimg.com/736x/9d/47/02/9d4702a5ac9bbeed087c9c5757e3a835.jpg

Well, my 1973 Strat has been with me since new and feels to me just like those slippers... comfy and reliable but...

fretfinder · May 2014

Monstronaut said:

I currently own a 63 strat, 63 sg, '56 les paul junior & Ive just picked up an early '65 335. They are all 'player grade' and every one of them cost me less than a modern reissue.

Less than a modern reissue? :-O

If anyone knows where I can get a 56 Junior and a 63 Strat for £1500 each, please let me know...

luscombe · May 2014

I agree that there are some fantastic new guitars available, but there is something about a vintage guitar that makes them so much more desireable. I also agree that some 1970's guitars were at best, average, but the popular models from Gibson. Fender & Martin in the 50's & 60's have never been equalled. What's more, if you buy wisely these guitars never lose money and may even appreciate in value.

crunchman · May 2014

The wood they used in the old ones is very hard to find now in quantity. Some of the old ones I've tried are incredibly light. If Fender and Gibson get wood like that now they save it for the Custom Shop. My CS Tele is probably the lightest modern solidbody one I've played.

Wood does change over time as well - old guitars do sound different.

If anyone wants to say the wood doesn't make a difference on a solid body electric go and play a PRS Standard (all mahogany body) alongside a PRS Custom (thick maple cap) first.

ICBM · May 2014

crunchman said:
If anyone wants to say the wood doesn't make a difference on a solid body electric go and play a PRS Standard (all mahogany body) alongside a PRS Custom (thick maple cap) first.

I always use this as an example because my otherwise-identical Standard and Custom were clearly different-sounding even at stage volume through a distortion pedal and an overdriven amp. Probably enough that once you were familiar with them, you could probably identify them blind, and certainly enough that the rest of the band noticed when I was playing them.

Grumpyrocker · May 2014

Vintage doesn't necessarily mean better - but that doesn't mean there's no reason to want one.

Take the E-type Jag. It's a thing of beauty. And I'm sure it'd be a lovely car to own and drive. A hot hatch would leave it standing, and the brakes would be shit. But that doesn't mean the E-type isn't a wonderful experience.

Heartfeltdawn · May 2014

Misty said:

Good point, though I do still think the electric vintage market is subsiding in general, I just get the impression that the good ones are spoken for, and what's left hangs around for long periods at inflated prices still, though those have come down a bit. Also, I'm sure there are fewer people with the money or the desire to invest in old guitars, and the younger players are just not that interested. Why would they be when new guitars are so good now? Having said that, I recently looked at a '65 Gibson ES175 which I really thought had something special about it.

I'd say the vintage market is subsiding in the same way the boutique pedal market and amp market is subsiding. The real peak for the boutique market in my view was 2006/07. In them days, it was relatively cheap to import gear from the US and Japan and the customs fees were lower. There were a shit load of Japanese guitars on UK Ebay then that simply aren't there now, same with boutique pedals and with a lot of vintage guitars imported from the US.

What's changed? I'd suggest some of these factors:

-better quality reissues being produced that are cheaper than, say, a 70's Strat.

-the greater availability of custom made guitars. Why bother getting a 70's Strat when you can get a body from MJT and build one to your spec for a cheaper price?

-For pedals, the explosion of small builders cloning boutique pedals and the Mooer/Joyo-type pedals coming into existence has meant a drop in the number of boutique pedals being bought new and being recycled on Ebay and in forums.

I can't ever see me being another vintage instrument as I've found modern ones that are better. Even stuff that isn't vintage like MIJ Jaguars and Jazzmasters have been trumped in my opinion by the Squier VM range.

impmann · May 2014

Sorry but this Internet myth about the Squier VMs being 'better' than MIJ/CIJ is just bobbins... I've just imported a CIJ Jaguar from Japan having owned a Squier VM Jaguar previously - seriously there is NO comparison. The Squier felt like a toy - the CIJ is incredible and feels like a professional instrument. In fact, having played *a lot* of jags now, this one has one of the best necks I have ever encountered - at any price point. The Squiers are good for the money but please let's not kid anyone - they are great *for the money*, but they are NOT better than a jap.

Heartfeltdawn · May 2014

impmann said:

Sorry but this Internet myth about the Squier VMs being 'better' than MIJ/CIJ is just bobbins... I've just imported a CIJ Jaguar from Japan having owned a Squier VM Jaguar previously - seriously there is NO comparison. The Squier felt like a toy - the CIJ is incredible and feels like a professional instrument. In fact, having played *a lot* of jags now, this one has one of the best necks I have ever encountered - at any price point. The Squiers are good for the money but please let's not kid anyone - they are great *for the money*, but they are NOT better than a jap.

Is it still a myth if I've owned Japanese Jaguars and Jazzmasters, hated them, and loved the Squier VM Jaguar to bits, so much so that I'm planning to buy another in the summer and have it refinished to Lake Placid Blue? No, it's not a myth, it's a subjective opinion.

I thought both the CIJ Jaguars I had played like shit (I hate vintage radius guitars), buzzed like shit even after coating the saddle screws in silver nail varnish, and sounded like shit. We won't even talk about the Strat pickups they were putting on the Jazzmaster...

By comparison, the Squier VM Jaguar played beautiful, the Duncan pickups were better than those on the Japanese ones, and it buzzed a whole lot less even before I did the usual mods to the bridge.

What on earth is a 'professional instrument' anyhow? Can I get a specification on that?

marantz1300 · May 2014

My favorite Les Paul ever was a 71 routed Deluxe.I liked how it felt,my non playing friends liked the tone.Wish I still had it.
My favorite Tele is the 78 I have now ,it sounds great with BKP flat 50's.
Neither is fashionable,I have had other 70's Fenders and Gibson's I also liked as well as modern guitars..
70's guitars have a bad rep.Maybe I'm just lucky.

fretfinder · May 2014

I had a 1955 LP Junior until recently. It was a beautiful guitar, really light, superb fat but comfortable neck, lovely P90 sound. But the original frets were very narrow and a bit worn down so it was very awkward to bend strings, and it wasn't really versatile enough to gig with in my band, plus I felt I couldn't let it out of my sight. So I sold it and don't really miss it at all. Would I buy another? If it was cheap maybe, but I'm very happy with the good reissue guitars I have and would probably rather get a Historic Junior or Special anyway.

impmann · May 2014

Perhaps it's not that the VMs are better - they just have a radius that suits you better.
The Duncan Designed pickups were IMHO ok but not great. I'll agree with you that the Jap pickups aren't great - and the DDs are better. BUT the bridge on the VM I had was made out of pot metal and rattled like a bag of washers on a spin cycle. The trem was shocking. The fretting was crap (literally every VM I have played and set up has had choking problems when bending strings above the 12th fret - I'm now up to 12 guitars on that score, leading me to believe there may be either a design flaw or that the ContractManufacturer for Fender - perhaps Yako, I'm not sure on these - isn't following the brief 100%.
Each to their own and your experience seems very different to mine but it isn't true to say the VMs are 'better' guitars.
My opinion - neither right nor wrong - is I don't like them!

Heartfeltdawn · May 2014

Oh, I don't doubt that there have been some shitty VM's out there. I remember how awful my Toronado was

There's an awful lot of hype around Japanese guitars that at times isn't deserved. That hype at its peak translated in all manner of idiots on Ebay selling off anything old and Japanese with adverts trying to make out it was a godlike guitar. The very best out of Japan is very good, no doubt about that.

luscombe · May 2014

Grumpyrocker said:

Vintage doesn't necessarily mean better - but that doesn't mean there's no reason to want one.

Take the E-type Jag. It's a thing of beauty. And I'm sure it'd be a lovely car to own and drive. A hot hatch would leave it standing, and the brakes would be shit. But that doesn't mean the E-type isn't a wonderful experience.

This is really what it's all about. The E-type is such a good comparison, and as you say most modern Hot hatches would leave it for dead, but would always lack the soul and style of the E-type, or a 60's Ferrari. The same rules apply in motorcycles. Most red blooded motorcyclists lust after a 1950's Vincent, yet most modern sports bikes of 600cc or more would run rings around the Vincent. Despite this, the Vincent would fetch £25,000 - £50,000 at auction, while a new Jap sports bike can be yours for £6,000 or so. It's just the same in aviation. Every pilot wants a 1940's Hurricane, Spitfire or P51 Mustang. All these aeroplanes are very hard to fly and viciously unsympathetic if the pilot makes a mistake, yet these are the aircraft everone lusts after, despite the availability of modern composite replicas. The late 40's was the peak of propellor aircraft development, just as the 50's & 60's was the peak of electric guitar development.

p90fool · May 2014

I think people forget that the "vintage" guitar market started for purely practical reasons, when you couldn't buy a proper Strat with decent body contours and pickups in a shop, or a Les Paul Standard with normal humbuckers.

It's gone crazy since, but that's what started it all. Lots of other guitars have been dragged along as collectibles in their wake, but it all started because you HAD to buy second hand. Anyone who now thinks that a passion for old guitars is just silliness should remember that at one time we had no choice.

djmusicman · April 2017

If you listen to a recording of a vintage or new electric, a USA telecaster for example then I don't think anyone would be able to tell which is which with any degree of accuracy.

Acoustics are different. I'd say the passage of time is a factor but it's mostly the construction techniques and the fact that the production numbers were much lower lets say pre Beatles hysteria.

I have a 1964 Martin 00-21ny that sounds different to it's closest modern day equivalent, the 00-28vs. But listen to recordings of Big Bill Broonzy playing a 1946 000-28 a couple of years after it was made. It sounded great already, it already had that sound.

Still, there are many great modern acoustics made by small boutiques like Santa Cruz etc... and the golden era / authentic Martin's. The best one's are usually the most expensive ones which makes sense.

Jack_ · April 2017

How did you manage to find a thread this old?

merlin · April 2017

I have a reissue CS '57 single cut LPJ. It's magnificent (if such a thing can be said for an LPJ). I bought it after owning a genuine '56 SC sunburst junior. In a blind-fold test I wouldn't be able to really tell the difference, plus I had over 3K back.

I'm happy.

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would you really notice any difference if you could afford to buy a vintage guitar?

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