Klones....

juansolo · May 2017

I have been biting my tongue the whole thread (again, I'm amazed I have one left).

There have been, to my knowledge, 2 Klons that have been traced. The original Chitum one, and the one that BYOC got. Mainly down to the fact that they were gooped and people tend not to want to risk destroying a pedal that's inexplicably worth thousands of dollars now. The Chitum trace was of an off the shelf pedal. The BYOC was slightly anomalous and had a few changes to it (I can't remember the circumstances that one was obtained under, but it's a little odd).

99% of all klones are based on the Chitum trace. So electronically, they're all the same. Variances come mainly from tolerances in analogue electronics, which can be bloody huge and effect ALL pedals, even different models of Klon. So you could back to back real Klons and have them sound a little different.

The main other difference tends to come from how people do the tone pot as that's genuinely the only point of contention on the build. Two fucking resistors and a cap. The two resistors were the other way around on the BYOC trace, but as mentioned the BYOC Klon was a bit of an anomaly. What this does is change the way the tone knob responds. It doesn't actually massively effect the tone. The only other change out there is our fault when we backed to backed a friends Klon with one we made and we found it lacking slightly in the mids so we changed the cap on the tone pot and it was indistinguishable from his particular Klon (as it was him we were building the pedal for and he wanted it the same).

It amuses me greatly some times when people argue which Klone is the best because of this. But it also frustrates me because it elevates some of them to some sort of pedestal based on religion (well it isn't based on fucking science that's for sure). Again throwing coal into the hype train's boiler that irks me so much for some reason. Hell I've seen people argue certain pedals are the holy grail of Klones when I know who makes their PCBs and it's based on exactly the same schematic as a popular DIY PCB. Indeed there are a few of those

Now I've got to rule the Soul Food out of this one as EHX intentionally made changes to the design a bit. But the boutique pedals... All the fucking same thing (minor, sonically very small, changes to the tone aside). So buy the one that's in the box that appeals to you most. The difference is really going to be all in the enclosure and quality of hardware and construction. Oh and of course, marketing. Sonically the variances are mostly going to be tolerances. Realistically, in practical use, they all sound the fucking same.

...and breathe.

I know some of you were waiting for that... *bows*

Sassafras · May 2017

Have a nice soothing cup of Chamomile tea.

Adam_MD · May 2017

juansolo said:

I have been biting my tongue the whole thread (again, I'm amazed I have one left).

There have been, to my knowledge, 2 Klons that have been traced. The original Chitum one, and the one that BYOC got. Mainly down to the fact that they were gooped and people tend not to want to risk destroying a pedal that's inexplicably worth thousands of dollars now. The Chitum trace was of an off the shelf pedal. The BYOC was slightly anomalous and had a few changes to it (I can't remember the circumstances that one was obtained under, but it's a little odd).

99% of all klones are based on the Chitum trace. So electronically, they're all the same. Variances come mainly from tolerances in analogue electronics, which can be bloody huge and effect ALL pedals, even different models of Klon. So you could back to back real Klons and have them sound a little different.

The main other difference tends to come from how people do the tone pot as that's genuinely the only point of contention on the build. Two fucking resistors and a cap. The two resistors were the other way around on the BYOC trace, but as mentioned the BYOC Klon was a bit of an anomaly. What this does is change the way the tone knob responds. It doesn't actually massively effect the tone. The only other change out there is our fault when we backed to backed a friends Klon with one we made and we found it lacking slightly in the mids so we changed the cap on the tone pot and it was indistinguishable from his particular Klon (as it was him we were building the pedal for and he wanted it the same).

It amuses me greatly some times when people argue which Klone is the best because of this. But it also frustrates me because it elevates some of them to some sort of pedestal based on religion (well it isn't based on fucking science that's for sure). Again throwing coal into the hype train's boiler that irks me so much for some reason. Hell I've seen people argue certain pedals are the holy grail of Klones when I know who makes their PCBs and it's based on exactly the same schematic as a popular DIY PCB. Indeed there are a few of those

Now I've got to rule the Soul Food out of this one as EHX intentionally made changes to the design a bit. But the boutique pedals... All the fucking same thing (minor, sonically very small, changes to the tone aside). So buy the one that's in the box that appeals to you most. The difference is really going to be all in the enclosure and quality of hardware and construction. Oh and of course, marketing. Sonically the variances are mostly going to be tolerances. Realistically, in practical use, they all sound the fucking same.

...and breathe.

I know some of you were waiting for that... *bows*

I'd love to have a look inside a RYRA to check the value of the cap on the tone pot and see what it is. The guy who makes them used to post on the Madbean forum and I'd like to see if he's using Juan and Cleggy's suggestion of a 8.2n cap instead of 3.9n.

That might explain the love for it vs Archer etc which use the stock values. I used that value in my build and it really improved the tone over the stock value.

juansolo · May 2017

Gives it a bit more in the mids. There is a graph showing all the different combinations in the last thread we had about this.

BintyTwanger77 · May 2017

@juansolo To be honest, I only mentioned the Tumnus and the RYRA because they're the only klones I've tried and had. I watched That Pedal Show and they tried these two and a couple of other ones, and there was absolutely no drastic difference whatsoever between them to my ears. I like them because they cut through really well, and I only went with the RYRA because the Tumnus was too wee for my stupid massive feet.

Adam_MD · May 2017

juansolo said:

Gives it a bit more in the mids. There is a graph showing all the different combinations in the last thread we had about this.

I went up to a 10n which worked in a strat but was a bit much for my les Paul and prs.

Danny1969 · May 2017

What about the clipping diodes ..... did anyone ever figure out what they were .... didn't he originally say they were the last of a batch and impossible to source now or something similar ?

I'm gonna build myself one so which diodes do you suggest ? @juansolo ;

Adam_MD · May 2017

According to Bill they're 1N34A. The Chitum trace lists them as .35v fv and fuzz dog has some NOS green band 1N34A which measure at 0.35v at least the ones I got did anyway. I also tried some Russian D9Es which are used in the Archer Ikon and they're really good too.

monquixote · May 2017

Great post @juansolo ;

I think the Tumnus does have some small change or at least claims to. Most reviews say it's a bit more bassy.

juansolo · May 2017

Danny1969 said:

What about the clipping diodes ..... did anyone ever figure out what they were .... didn't he originally say they were the last of a batch and impossible to source now or something similar ?

I'm gonna build myself one so which diodes do you suggest ? @juansolo ;;;

Yep, what Adam says is spot on. They're only used on the dirty side of the circuit so if you're using it as a clean boost you can use any old shite in there as you're not using them until you turn the gain up

Image: /plugins/EmojiExtender/emoji/fb/1.gif

As for not being able to source them and him buying the last batch... Yeah... Let's file that one under bollocks shall we. You can get 1N34A's all over the place.

monquixote said:

Great post @juansolo ;;;

I think the Tumnus does have some small change or at least claims to. Most reviews say it's a bit more bassy.

I'd be very surprised if they've drifted from the Chitum trace. It's rare that anyone does as a Klone is what everyone wants. Which is that.

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