Mountain bikes... advice please!

skunkwerx · August 2017

Ok so for a while now I've been wanting to get back into riding. But the last bike I bought has left me a bit unsure.

Long story short, 2 years ago I went for a decathlon rockrider, the cheapest model. The crank was cross threaded and eventually failed, and the rear v brakes didnt provide any power, due to rear frame flex.

So I exchaned and they upgraded me for free to the next model up. Which was great except the gears would be set perfectly on the bike stand, yet wouldnt shift properly under rider weight.

More worryingly, using the front disc brake would pull the front wheel out of the drop outs, at first only slightly, but enough to tilt the wheel and cause mega brake rub. No matter how tight the qr skewers were done up, it kept happening.

Basically a lot of time and money were wasted for a couple weeks of riding, in which I experienced all the above failures!
The bike went back and I gave up for a bit.

So now I'm looking again, the budget is £500 max.

The one that keeps sticking out is the Voodoo Bizango, as it appears on paper to be the best specced for the price. Suntour raidon forks with a thru axle, shimano hydraulic brakes, etc.

Its £500 from halfords (sigh), but with a 10% british cycling discount, that brings it down a bit.

I have read about the front mech having been changed of late, to something that doesnt shift properly or causes chain rub? But I can't find any definitive stuff.

The contenders are mostly around the £500 mark but from Evans cycles, so theres a couple of Trek marlins, A Norco (forget the model), a specialized (again forget the model), and possibly a few others too.

The only obvious downside is that the evans bikes I'm looking at all have cheaper forks, ie, suntour xct, or xcm, with dropouts (that I fear). Most have hydraulic brakes but not all are shimano, some are tekro (I think).

So my dilemna is, a bike from evans would cost me more, as they don't seem to take the british cycling discount, and from my eyes, appear to have lower spec forks.

Also most of the bikes I could afford in this £500 price range, are sale bikes, to get the most bang for my buck. So sizing is pretty damn limited on some models as theyre obviously selling and not getting more in.

But, I don't know much about Voodoo bikes, if theyre up to the task and will last, or if replacement parts are available that will fit. (I'm a bike noob). The big downside is having halfords staff assemble the bike too.
I'd trust evans a lot more.

The main thing holding me back is reliability and faults, after the experience before. Literally a headache I do not want to repeat!

Local bike shops to me are, not so local, atleast the independant ones. But also their bikes are out of my budget.

I have two Halfords within riding distance, and two evans within driving distance, but that would require taking front wheels off and cramming the bike in the back of a hatchback to bring home...

The bike I would want would be a hard tail, preferably hydraulic disc brakes, and decent gearing. Thru axle would be nice but out of my budget except on the voodoo. Obviously on top of a good frame.

Wheel size doesnt bother me so much, and the bike would be used for fitness, primarily on road/street, but also trails, light trails such as riding through forests. But It would need to take a bump or three, because I can't resist a bunny hop off of a kerb, or a small jump at a light trail. Hence I'd like a hardtail and not rigid.

Unsure if my work does cycle to work, but I'm not aiming to be there for another year.

Any advice?

Legionreturns · August 2017

https://www.canyon.com/en-gb/mtb/grand-canyon/2017/grand-canyon-al-3-9.html

Try that bad boy! Canyon bikes are ace and very well specced.

Have a look on their clearance pages and some cracking bargains can be had.

Re Halfrauds.... I've personally seen a bike setup by them with the front forks on backwards. Wouldn't touch them with yours!

slacker · August 2017

I got a good deal at a local bike shop, go to some shops see what they've got

menamestom · August 2017

Personally, I'd go for something like a Trek, Specialised or GT.

The Specialised Rockhopper 2017 is in budget. I had one for about 8 years. I've had a GT now for about 8 years.

The GT has Tekro brakes, which have been great. Also has a Suntour fork which feels really good, miles better than the cheaper Rock Shox 80mm forks on some more expensive bikes. IT has lockout, decent travel and quick plush rebound. Like some cheap pickups, I expected to swap them out but never bothered!

Legionreturns · August 2017

My HT 29er is a Scott Aspect, which is admittedly nearly double your budget but can easily be found on clearance sales for less.

I tested a lot of bikes before getting that one.

I couldn't recommend them enough. I specifically wanted one with lots of frame space for luggage for bike camping but I've abused this bike over some serious rough stuff and it's coped admirably. So much so that I sold my full suss on.

Boromedic · August 2017

In most cases I would always recommend going to a shop but with your budget you're gonna be stuck with the low budget stuff there that will have compromises in the spec somewhere. That's not always a bad thing as most parts wear out and need replacing after a few British winters! (just a few weeks sometimes). Canyon are great but you have to order blind so to speak and you don't have the same convenience of dealing with a store, plus their entry level is over budget a bit.

That Bizango is a bargain, forget the internet blurb about Halfords there are some horror stories yes, but them bikes come from the factory in a box with everything attached except the brake calipers, front wheel, and sometimes the rear mech generally. They are straightforward to screw together, and yes Halfords have got it wrong with this on occasions but you can go over it yourself with a fine tooth comb before you ride it and test it in the car park. Worst case scenario is the gears are poorly indexed, the brakes need bleeding, and the calipers poorly positioned probably, I would expect the cranks are already attached so should be fine. These are easy do it yourself fixes with simple tools and there is plenty of youtube videos and online guides (Parktools) to help you. Although I would definitely recommend getting some form of torque wrench as the bolts and adjustments on the cheaper bikes can easily deform if overtightened, even the cheap ones are worth it.

http://www.halfords.com/cycling/bike-maintenance/bike-tools/ice-toolz-ocarina-torque-wrench-set

http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/topeak-combo-torq-wrench/rp-prod137802?gs=1&utm_source=google&utm_term=&utm_campaign=Chain+Reaction-UK-PLA-PLA-All-DT-SE-Shopping+QLB+Generic+Desktop&utm_medium=base&utm_content=mkwid|sObRFCQha_dc|pcrid|161850070953|pkw||pmt||prd|499674UK

Plus Halfords do a free 6 week check and you will have some form of warranty from them. As they are close to you this is a bonus. Brake bleeding can be done yourself at home with the right kits, look here for examples and again this is a good skill to learn to do in case you have an issue one morning and no shops are open to help.

http://www.epicbleedsolutions.com/products/bleed-kits/shimano/complete-kit/

For the stuff you mention doing with it a 29er is the best choice, 27.5 is good too but 29 would be better. The Raidon is a great fork, I wouldn't get too hung up on quick release as it sounds like there was some other issue going on with your previous bike, thru axle is great of course so you won't have the worry but people (me included), have ridden QR for years without issue. I've smashed my QR axles through some of the worst the Peak District can throw at you with no problems at all. That said I can see why you're allergic to them!

The frame for the Voodoo would be worth upgrading when the cheaper parts wear out, which they will over time as they all do, so when the time comes you won't be left with a POS frame that isn't worth riding. Also Shimano brakes are far better than Tektro, Hayes, Formula, and all the other brands in the lower budget ranges so if you can get them it's a massive bonus. There will be compromises on all bikes in that price range but the Voodoo is sensible in terms of where they've made savings.

I won't bother going into the other brands you've mentioned, just buy the Voodoo which is a great bike at a great price. The first things you'll need to replace once they wear out (don't fall for this idea of upgrading out of the box, use them till they start having issues), will be the wheels in particular the hubs especially the freehub which won't like wet weather. So it will be cheaper to buy a new set with decent hubs like Shimano Deore. Also your cranks and BB will probably not last 2 winters depending on how shit the weather you ride in is, luckily a decent set of Shimano cranks and BB won't cost the earth. If you're not confident of doing these yourself, find a decent local bike shop to do these for you and buy the parts from them and they'll do a bang up job. It will cost more but......... I always think it's a bit cheeky taking them internet parts and asking them to fit them, this might not bother you though!

The rest of the components will probably last a long time with the exception of the chain and the brake pads, which are easily replaced. Everything else is basic servicing and if you keep on top of it you'll have no issues.

m_c · August 2017

The Voodoo Bizango does seem like a reasonable spec for the money. Voodoo is Halford's own brand (Voodoo in other countries are a separate brand, which are available here under the Banshee brand, as Halford's own the Voodoo trademark).

Anything from any of the big brands will usually be reasonably specced for the money, and if you're not mechanically minded, it's probably worth buying from a shop.

Also, how tall are you? Unless you're over 6', or only plan on riding relatively smooth trails, I'd suggest a 650b (27.5") wheel size. The bigger wheels do make a difference to rolling speed, but they take more effort to speed up, get around tight corners, and to get the front one of the ground. However, it depends on you what kind of trails you plan to ride.

Boromedic · August 2017

Forgot to post this review in case you hadn't seen it:

http://www.mbr.co.uk/reviews/hardtail/voodoo-bizango-29er-review-2013

Boromedic · August 2017

m_c said:

The Voodoo Bizango does seem like a reasonable spec for the money. Voodoo is Halford's own brand (Voodoo in other countries are a separate brand, which are available here under the Banshee brand, as Halford's own the Voodoo trademark).
Anything from any of the big brands will usually be reasonably specced for the money, and if you're not mechanically minded, it's probably worth buying from a shop.
Also, how tall are you? Unless you're over 6', or only plan on riding relatively smooth trails, I'd suggest a 650b (27.5") wheel size. The bigger wheels do make a difference to rolling speed, but they take more effort to speed up, get around tight corners, and to get the front one of the ground. However, it depends on you what kind of trails you plan to ride.

I'm 5'10" and I get round plenty of natural trails and trail centres just fine on a 29er, it's horses for courses like with the wheel size debate.

I do mostly XC with some natural trail descending thrown in (none of this crazy Red Bull stuff!) as well as trail centres of course and 29 is perfect for me. The getting up to speed argument and cornering stuff are all subjective, once you've spun the wheels up the extra weight is negligible so we're talking a time of a few seconds at best and they will potentially roll for longer afterwards too so you gain it back sometimes. The handling depends as much on the bike geometry as the wheelsize, plus it's one of them marginal gain things where someone like Guy Kesteven will be able to negotiate a course at super speed and may notice the difference but the rest of us probably wouldn't. With a proper sorted frame geometry its not as much of an issue as some make out, not like the early days of stuffing large wheels on a poorly designed frame. If he's doing any sort of road riding/commuting and simple blue trails with a mix of red then I'd say 29 all day. I can manual fine on 29" wheels but wheelies are definitely more difficult!

YMMV of course and it's all up to the rider, I have mates who still ride 26" having ridden the other sizes and won't change for the world. That's why talks like this are cool, anyway we digress. Buy the Voodoo already!

m_c · August 2017

@boromedic by the sounds of it, your riding suits 29" wheels. My downhill bike has 26" wheels, while my trail bike has 27.5". Even allowing for the different travels/geometry, there is a noticeable difference in the riding technique to get the most out of the wheel sizes. The bigger the wheel, the more you really need to get your weight forward on the bike to make the most of the bigger wheels.

I've demoed a few 29ers, and on mellow trails they are easier to go faster. Even straight lines over rough trails they're usually faster. However they are far harder to maintain speed on tight technical trails. The one demo that sticks in mind was some Ibis short travel steep headangled carbon XC thing I tried a couple years ago. On a steep tight twisty track, it felt just like riding my old 26" hardtail, but once the trail mellowed out into a gradual meandering descent, the 29er flew.

The only reason I don't go for a 29er, is I don't fancy the wheel costs. I know people far lighter than me (I'm over 15stone fully kitted), who gave up 29ers because they were spending too much money on getting wheels fixed. Big wheels really don't like the abuse our local trails give out. Even my 650b wheels need far more attention than my 26" wheels ever did.

Bygone_Tones · August 2017

Why buy new? complete waste of money in my opinion. It becomes a used bike anyway the moment you take it out for the 1st time.

Used bizango's can be bought on ebay for about 250 to 275. There are loads of them. 500 could get you a much better bike:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/Cycling/7294/i.html?_sop=10&_from=R40&_mPrRngCbx=1&_udlo=450&_udhi=500&LH_BIN=1&LH_ItemCondition=4&_nkw=mountain bike&_dcat=177831&rt=nc

Boromedic · August 2017

@m_c Yeah that's why I said horses for courses tbh. I move my weight around a lot when I'm riding anyway and a lot of the times I find I move my weight back more to lighten the front except whilst climbing, that's the easiest way to get it to flow. I'm not a crazy downhill trail guy anymore, just natural rocky/rooty descents with some with twisty bits and trail centre reds with the occasional black thrown in. I tested a 27.5 at Cannock and to be honest found very little difference around Dog and Monkey so stuck with my 29er. It's all that subjective rider thing with what you prefer isn't it really.

The wheel maintenance issue I've never understood but it is very subjective based on riding type and terrain, as I've hammered mine around the Peak District and Wales (and if you've ridden there you'll know how rocky them trails are) and never had an adjustment to make other than cleaning the bearings and the occasional spoke tweak. These are handbuilt cheapish Shimano Deore hubs with Sun RIngle hoops, I think handbuilt makes a difference for sure and they definitely flex that bit more than the smaller sizes. All in all though they've had some terrible abuse back from when I started riding again and my flow was awful!! Fully kitted I'm probably 13 stone plus change though so maybe that makes a difference and also I don't do tons of drop offs and jumps so again that will make a difference. Horses for courses as we said before I suppose!

Damn it all this bike talk is making me miss my bike!!! Hahaha

ewal · August 2017

I got a Boardman Team 29er direct from Boardman Bikes when it was on offer for £650. I bought it via the work Cyclescheme so for under £500. It's a lot of bike for the money.

Boromedic · August 2017

They're great bikes the Boardmans like, but he did say he isn't sure on cycle to work and may not be there for the next year so probably rules out that avenue unfortunately.

skunkwerx · August 2017

Hmmm. Decisions decisions.

Theres a Scott aspect on evans at the moment, £500 which appears to be similarly specced to the Bizango, except with xcm suntours. So the raidons on the bizango are better, for cheaper.

But then its the pickle of set up and frame quality.

One slight issue is that no Halfords near me seems to have a bizango in stock, and the closest evans which have the Scott in stock is about 40 miles away.

Ordering in isnt a problem per say, but yeah, its a bit of a blind buy, especially as I'd need to atleast sit on a scott 29er and a Voodoo 29er of any ilk to see what sizing I'd need. Standover clearance was a bit of a prob last time, and I cant for the life of me remember what size bike I bought... but it was a 650b wheel size, and my nuts were always in danger..

I'd feel more comfortable having better standover clearance for sure!

Boromedic · August 2017

Have you got a link to which model Scott Aspect it is and I'll have a look for you. Generally the big brands offer less bang for buck but if it's a sale price it might be worth it. Also I would at least go and sit on what you're considering buying you need more standover of you're considering any trails etc..

skunkwerx · August 2017

Cheers all.

Yep the link to the Scott is:

https://www.evanscycles.com/scott-aspect-940-2017-mountain-bike-EV286174

Colour doesnt matter to me, they have both m and l between the colours.

Another Scott:

https://www.evanscycles.com/scott-aspect-740-2017-mountain-bike-EV286165

650b wheels.

The voodoo:

http://www.halfords.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductMobileDisplay?storeId=10001&productId=1111385&srch=bizango&categoryId=165499&langId=-1&catalogId=10151

Specialized Rockhopper:

https://www.evanscycles.com/specialized-rockhopper-sport-29-2017-mountain-bike-EV279810

Only Mediums left though.. could fit me though but I'd need to test that!

The Norco storm:

https://www.evanscycles.com/norco-storm-9-1-2017-mountain-bike-EV277761

Also available in 27.5 for the same price.

Theyre basically my options from what I can see, just by browsing whats on evans sale page.

Im just wary of the Voodoo falling apart or having bits go wrong that may not be as easy to source relacements for.

Im 200lbs also, so not the lightest guy. But I dont plan on hitting jumps or big drop offs. Just kerbs, maybe light trails etc.

Maybe I'm over worrying, and the previous b'twin's fork dropouts or qr skewers were just shite, but even small non emergency braking on the front brake would be enough to pull the wheel out, enough to need to stop, reseat it and retighten. Obviously even a little movement of the wheel caused major brake rub, not that any amount of movement is acceptable really!

Thanks alot for all the help so far guys!

Boromedic · August 2017

No contest between them bikes really, the Voodoo is a better frame and has better parts all round except for the chainset, which is slightly worse than the one on the Scotts but you gain in other areas like the Deore gearset etc. it's also lighter. If they have your size I'd get the Voodoo, the lower range big manufacturer bikes are just entry level brand introductions and offer little in value. If you look after them and get them serviced regular them Deore gears will last forever pretty much accidents aside.

beed84 · August 2017

Get a good quality used/retro bike with upgraded parts. That way you'll get a lot more bike for your money.

ThePrettyDamned · August 2017

I tried an amazing bike the other week - if you are sure you want a mountain bike.

Marin Pine Mountain plus.

It's on offer in places for about £500 and has a sram 1x10, nobby nics, steel frame and is a blast to ride. I wanted a faster bike for roads and wound up with a touring bike that straddles a bit of everything, but if you want a fun mountain bike, you'll not find better me thinks. Brilliant thing.

I tried some suspension models but I was advised that budget suspension under 700ish quid isn't up to much. I'm not an expert though. The marin was great fun though.

ThePrettyDamned · August 2017

https://www.rutlandcycling.com/bikes/mountain-bikes/marin-pine-mountain-2017-27-5-plus-hardtail-mountain-bike-silver_372560?origin=pla&kwd=&currency=GBP&gclid=Cj0KCQjwtpDMBRC4ARIsADhz5O4Haspltu7qevi3EJFhKayM1M5hmfAPMafP6F1ScTByF8c9PtCoe1YaAvheEALw_wcB

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Mountain bikes... advice please!

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