Kat-Hel-tana-ix

guitarfishbay · September 2017

Yeah I think what makes it easier to understand where Drew's coming from is his gear is his voice... he's playing instrumental music and he's basically the lead singer, but through the guitar.

So even if there's only a few % in it for tone and or feel, it's enough for him to prefer sticking with the valve amp for performance.

Whereas someone like me is basically playing backing chords for a singer, so I can take a more pragmatic approach to gear where multiple ways of doing things would be good enough for me to be happy.

Plectrum · September 2017

Use whatever makes you happy. Just don't delude yourself into thinking that anyone in the audience cares

Drew_TNBD · September 2017

Plectrum said:

Use whatever makes you happy. Just don't delude yourself into thinking that anyone in the audience cares

Another bit of 'received wisdom' that I think is wrong.

Yes they care. They just can't articulate it the same way us nobbers can.

guitarfishbay · September 2017

Yeah the audience cares.

They don't care if you use a Tubescreamer vs an SD1 but they do care if you sound good or not.

dindude · September 2017

Drew_TNBD said:

Plectrum said:

Use whatever makes you happy. Just don't delude yourself into thinking that anyone in the audience cares

Another bit of 'received wisdom' that I think is wrong.

Yes they care. They just can't articulate it the same way us nobbers can.

Totally true, I've even given Drew a wisdom which is a first for me

. It's your job as the musician to care (deeply) about these minute things not the audience, they will suck up the "total sum", and everything has an influence on this and will make a difference.

Plectrum · September 2017

guitarfishbay said:

Yeah the audience cares.

They don't care if you use a Tubescreamer vs an SD1 but they do care if you sound good or not.

Oh no they don't

I've proved this to myself playing live week in and week out. As long as you don't sound awful they couldn't care less. We all like our guitars to sound good but above a fairly modest quality we're doing it for ourselves not the audience. Unless your audience consists entirely of guitarists in which case your band has way bigger problems that your guitar tone LOL

guitarfishbay · September 2017

Right but define fairly modest quality

The simple fact is the sounds and dynamics do matter varying amounts by genre. As noted - Drew's playing the kind of music where it matters more than some other genres.

For an extreme example look at drums. If it really didn't matter every drummer playing through a PA would be using an E-Kit, but the majority don't, real drums just sound and play better and by quite a margin vs cheaper E-Kits.

Drew_TNBD · September 2017

I can tell when someone doesn't give a shit about their sound. It changes how I perceive the band. If they don't care, I don't care.

For me, I can't get the sounds I want from modelling. I have tried. So I stick with my valve amps and a 4x12 cab.

All of my effects are digital. If I am happy with my sound, I will play better. Thus giving the audience a better experience.

The reason I am really hyped about my Helix is because nothing else before has allowed me to go over to a 'snapshots' way of thinking. I was always a tap-dancer, and it always pissed me off. The Helix though has changed all that, and I would find it quite difficult to go back to a simple set of stomps again.

Saying that, I spent most of the day today playing with my DD500 and Timeline delays. I think I could get through a gig with just those two at a push!!

professorben · September 2017

Drew_TNBD said:

I can tell when someone doesn't give a shit about their sound. It changes how I perceive the band. If they don't care, I don't care.

For me, I can't get the sounds I want from modelling. I have tried. So I stick with my valve amps and a 4x12 cab.

All of my effects are digital.

Snap, if I had a Kemper/AxeFx/Helix I'd be getting to do the Mesa Mark heavy sound, because that's what I like.

So the point of having a box that does that one sound and a thousand others vs a box that does that one sound only, is moot.

I like my Rack and 4x12 with pedalboard, not because I'm a relic of a bygone era, but because it delivers the tones I want, with the feel I like.

I dont record at home, I don't gig in function environments where onstage volume is an issue.

But my OP was more regarding products such as Helix and Katana, where digital seems to be hitting the 'break-even' point.

Digital has always had the upper hand in regard to flexibility and routing, hell I've been trying to get a traditional set up to switch like my old Line6 Flextone of nearly 20 years ago.

I'm just curious about whether we have reached to point where it's no longer about Digital Vs Valve.

Jonathanthomas83 · September 2017

If it's not about digital vs valve, we're going to seriously struggle to find conversation around these parts! I still think we'll argue about this for years to come, it's such a divisive subject. You've got fanatics on both sides who will argue all day long about the pros and cons of each.

I can't buy into the idea that subtleties can't be achieved with digital gear. I've searched for years to get the tone in my head, I got there in the end and sold it all because I was able to recreate it with the Axe FX, subtleties included - but that's my stuff I guess. But that's my use case, I'll take your word for it and would absolutely love to hear @Drew_TNBD's style of music and live experience.

However, @guitarfishbay makes a good analogy with e-drums. I think a lot of that is partly down to the physical feedback an acoustic drum gives you, the bounce back of the sticks, and how it, in turn, makes you play.

Drew_TNBD · September 2017

Jon, how you running your Axe in a live sitch??

I'm not a fanatic. Just use what gets me where I wanna get.

Jonathanthomas83 · September 2017

Drew_TNBD said:

Jon, how you running your Axe in a live sitch??

I'm not a fanatic. Just use what gets me where I wanna get.

I haven't, mate. I only rehearse with friends at a local studio and play/record in my man cave.

The only experience I've got of the Axe FX in a live situation is when I've watched bands play with them. I go to a few gigs, if that means anything. A few of my favourite bands have gone 100% all in, and they sound just as good, if not better, than they did, to my ears.

I wouldn't dream of singling you or anyone else out as a fanatic, just saying that there are plenty of us out there willing to have conversations like this - I include myself in that. A fanatic is probably the wrong term, no offence intended.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that you're wrong either. From my personal experience and how I've managed to get pretty much 99.9% of my personal tone quests with digital, I struggle to get my head around why others may choose to use amps if they're experienced digital in the same way I have.

That makes me sound like a complete dick and sorry about that. I remember how frustrated I used to get when people told me digital did everything and all I liked at the time was my tube amp, so in some small way, I know how annoying my statements will come across.

Drew_TNBD · September 2017

Not annoying at all, I find the different opinions interesting. I'm still open to modelling and would switch if I found a rig that worked as well or better than what I currently have.

Jonathanthomas83 · September 2017

Wise indeed, mate :-)

Plectrum · September 2017

guitarfishbay said:

For an extreme example look at drums. If it really didn't matter every drummer playing through a PA would be using an E-Kit, but the majority don't, real drums just sound and play better and by quite a margin vs cheaper E-Kits.

I'm not sure that's exactly the same thing. I think a better analogy for that would be the difference between playing a real acoustic and using an electric with an acoustic simulator.

TTBZ · September 2017

I'd like to be converted but not so far.. I think the sounds are there for recording but I'm not sold for live/band use quite yet. All the modellers I've tried just sound and feel like good refined recordings of amps rather than a real live one. Again, great for recording as the hard part (decent mic, room, cab etc) is done for you.

I almost got a Code 50 instead of my Mini Jubilee - to me the tones in the code are awesome and I like digital flexibility but at practice the real deal just sounded and felt better. The code felt pretty directional as well which I didn't like. Most modellers have too many options for me to get my head around so the simpler ones like the code, yamaha etc are way more appealing. I've always been a single channel amp player using guitar volume to control the gain, until recently this wrote modellers off for me as the dynamics left a lot to be desired. I'd still like to try out a THR100 some time.

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