Boss Katana 100 gig report

Modellista · October 2017

A nice report of the real-world challenges of using gear. Just shows how we all have our expectations and when they meet the physics of reality some compromises ensue.

I have seen one or two videos of you playing and I know how much you ride the volume control, but still - having the master on 10 on the 100w setting you would expect to be ear-bleedingly loud. There is a chance your one is faulty.

Have I got this right - that you're using the brown channel with the guitar volume way down to clean it up? Quite an unusual use case there, but each to their own.

Volume aside, the take away here is you like the tone and it reacts like a proper amp, which it certainly does. I find a lovely tone using the clean channel with a bit of clean boost - it overdrives exactly as you would hope and expect, and with a bit of volume control use you can go from clean to hairy on just the one channel. Although again this is the opposite to what you say you want from a boost pedal - I like a boost to push the amp into mild overdrive, whereas you want headroom so you're just going to get more volume. Why not just use the volume pedal then?

Anyway, my experience of using the 50w has been great - it just sounds good with everything pointing upwards, and reacts to pedals how you would expect. I've had no bother at all playing with loud drummers, although that it mic'd up, so it's just acting as a sound generating device rather than a PA device. Perhaps I'm easily pleased!

p90fool · October 2017

modellista said:

Have I got this right - that you're using the brown channel with the guitar volume way down to clean it up? Quite an unusual use case there, but each to their own.

That's exactly right. It's voiced differently to the crunch and lead channels, they are quite grainy so don't clean up as well.

There's something I like about the way high gain amps clean up, that's why I use amps like Jet City's 100 HDM and Custom 22 for playing pop music. When you roll 'em back they're smoother and cleaner-sounding than a lot of vintage-style amps, and the Brown channel does this extremely well.

I do actually use a volume pedal, it's critical for versatility. Because of the channel I'm using I have huge amounts of gain available from the guitar's volume knob, but a volume pedal in the loop (or expression pedal in the Katana's case) means I can control the master volume.

This means I can have loads of sustain at low volume, or I can roll the guitar back so it's almost completely clean and have that as loud as I like using the volume pedal, or indeed anywhere in between.

That's the crux of the whole thing - any level of gain I like at any level of volume I like, hence the need for plenty of power amp headroom.

Add delay and chorus pedals and you can gig practically any song that's thrown at you with a single channel, and you're always at the right level in the mix.

Trude · October 2017

^Wis awarded - I've been doing something similar on the brown channel when playing at home and I'd like to take the plunge and use the same method live one day...

menamestom · October 2017

Fair play to you for working with the amp rather than immediately rejecting it.

I liked my 100w at home but then got as far as this:-

p90fool said:

First impressions during soundcheck, BEAMY! Oh wow is it directional, ranging from pure mud when stood in front of it (it was on a chair), to absolutely cutting your head off when stood on the floor in front of the two-foot high stage we were playing on.

Then though, not for me. Perhaps I should have tweaked and worked a little bit, let the speaker break in etc.

Ironically I may have kept the 50, because of the reduced expectation, size and weight, and the 100 did sound good at home.

Gassage · October 2017

p90fool said:

Is this wise if gigging in the USA?

They may think it's a target.

p90fool · October 2017

Gassage said:

p90fool said:

Is this wise if gigging in the USA?

They may think it's a target.

Haha there is a grill cloth which fits over it!

I did it to the Katana this afternoon and it's transformed it, no more headslicing treble on axis, it's sounding really really good.

TTBZ · October 2017

Really interested in trying out the head into a decent cab ! I've heard so much good stuff about the Katana series I can't imagine it'll be that bad, despite not hearing any clip that have really wowed me. The best I've heard is the video from intheblues. Maybe I'll pick up a 50 combo to dip my toe in and see if it's worth going up to a bigger one.

p90fool · November 2017

BRIEF UPDATE!

I had a gig in a nice venue last night where I always get a good sound, and I'd saved my final settings from last Saturday's gig.

Plug in, switch on, and it sounded bloody awful, like a cheap practice amp with an 8" speaker.

I was fighting against boomy, indistinct low frequencies last week so ended up with bass at 9 o'clock, but I couldn't get enough bass out if it last night, even flat out.

Basically I fought the amp all night and had a pretty miserable time of it.

Tonight's gig is totally different, a tiny, cramped pub which we always pack out, and I'm dreading it now.

Last night I had all the traditional modelling amp issues, it wouldn't respond properly to guitar volume, it was alternating between scratchy and boomy, and I was riding the volume pedal all night.

I'm kind of committed to sorting it really, I've bought the foot controller, expression pedal and a nice padded cover. I know it can work, but how to get a consistent sound from venue to venue is a bit of a mystery so far.

I'll be pissed off if it turns out to be my most expensive ever practice amp.

Trude · November 2017

It does sound like your amp has something wrong with it. Rather than spend ages suffering, I'd exchange it for a new one and see if anything changes.

p90fool · November 2017

It really isn't faulty, it just mirrors the battle I've had with every other digital modelling experience I've ever had.

They're all fine if you're a Guitar on ten/clean/crunch/dirty kind of player, but I'm just not.

It sounds way better than previous generations of (cheaper) amp modellers, but the dynamics thing hasn't really moved on much at all.

I did gig a Zoom G3 directly into the PA in one band for about a year, and had exactly the same always-at-the-wrong-volume problem.

Tonight's pub gig will be my last attempt for a while, I have some good quality function gigs coming up where I just can't spend the evening fucking around with amps.

ICBM · November 2017

I understand exactly where p90fool is coming from even though I've never even played a Katana yet.

The lack of understanding of the power and responsiveness required for clean volume and dynamics from people who only gig with a distorted sound is quite normal

. I've found exactly the same always-at-the-wrong volume problem with modellers too. (I tend to get my dynamics from picking strength rather than the guitar volume control, but it amounts to the same thing - that's not a badge of honour either, it's just what I do and is as much about laziness as skill! And I don't use a pick.) If anything, old-school analogue solid-state is still much better for that.

For whatever reason, valve amps just have a natural responsiveness and power delivery which works for guitar players in a band context. The further you move away from that - solid-state Class AB, digital modelling, Class D, switch-mode power supply - the worse it seems to get in my experience. It isn't *just* a characteristic of the power section either, although I think that's were it mostly is. I know this is is a bit of a Luddite view, and I honestly wish it wasn't true!

The claimed power output vs mains power input thing annoys me too. I don't honestly know which way round it is with the Katana - I've always assumed it was the output power which was exaggerated given that I expected accurate power draw to be a regulations requirement, but when I measured my Ampeg Micro VR (claimed 200W output, 150W input) I was surprised to discover that it's a true 200W output but draws 288W! On the other hand, it still doesn't really sound any louder than my old 100W Peavey Century with its stated 300W draw, so I think the type of power supply does have a bearing - the Ampeg is switch-mode and the Peavey is an old-school (weighty) transformer of course.

For non-valve amps to be taken really seriously, the first thing that needs to happen is to stop exaggerating the output power. The only company I know of which has done it right is Blackstar - the ID series is in fact twice as powerful as claimed. Cheating in a different way, but at least they are capable of roughly the same volume as a cranked valve amp of the same stated power. And interestingly are Class D but with a conventional power supply - so perhaps the supply is the *more* important factor… (But sadly, I don't like the standard Blackstar voicing so an ID is not for me.)

On a different point, while the gaffer-tape cross will help, the best solution to speaker 'beaming' is the Mitchell Donut. (Please excuse American spelling

.) The problem isn't actually caused by the centre of the speaker - it's because directly on-axis, the sound from all areas of the cone 'lines up' at once. The gaffer tape will help break that up to some extent, admittedly.

http://www.stratopastor.org.uk/strato/amps/prii/speaker/foamdonut/foamdonut.html

stratman3142 · November 2017

@p90fool thanks for sharing your experiences. What amp were you using before as a matter of interest? Sorry if you've already mentioned it and I missed it.

I used to use an HRD3 and replaced it with a Roland Blues Cube Artist. Before I stopped gigging, I only did a couple of gigs with the Blues Cube (one open air and the other in a smallish pub). I found the Blues Cube an easy match for the HRD3 (at the levels that I play at) and had to back it off to the 45W setting because it was so loud. I assumed that there wouldn't be much difference in the output of a Blues Cube Artist and a Katana 100.

Trude · November 2017

@ICBM. ;; I honestly couldn't care less about the stated power rating or any other specs. My real world experience of this amp over at least 50 gigs in a variety of venues from small pubs to the main stage at Victorious festival is that it is FECKING loud, has absolutely towering amounts of clean headroom, and leaves me wanting for nothing in terms of responsiveness. It's never taken me more than a minute or two to dial in a sound I'm totally happy with.

As I said, I play the amp clean most of the time and get all my drive from pedals. I have never had to use the full power setting. I also run the bass below 50% most times, and it's more than ample. If I wanted to, I could shake the floor with it.

If @p90fool 's amp was sounding as bad as he says then I don't see how it can be anything other than a duff amp. To discount that possibility seems a bit rash.

ICBM · November 2017

That does sound like a very different experience, certainly.

But I have long since lost count of the number of people who say that a Fender Deluxe Reverb has enough volume and clean headroom for gigging. Not for me it doesn't - and I don't even play very loud. Nor does a solid-state Deluxe 85 - if anything worse. So it wouldn't at all surprise me if p90fool's amp is working fine - in general modern solid-state amps don't lose power like that anyway, they either work perfectly or die completely.

I admit I have no experience of the Katana yet. (I wouldn't have commented except that someone tagged me.)

No amp works perfectly for everyone. I like powerful solid-state amps, but I'm aware that most people don't get on with them at all.

Trude · November 2017

I had a DRRI for quite a while. I was always running out of clean headroom. The Katana would absolutely crush it.

Plectrum · November 2017

I'm not sure the concept of "clean headroom" is valid for a modelling amp. My understanding is that the power section is only allowed to operate within its linear range and that is independent of whether the input signal is clean or distorted so the driven sounds won't be any louder than the clean sounds. Which is completely different from most (all?) valve amps.

midlifecrisis · November 2017

i agree it is easier to get a good drive/distorted sound but my band throws in a few reggae and funk numbers where i switch to a clean sound and i have no trouble in cuttimg through and doing a bit of minor tweaking on the guitar volume control.
i dont know what the true power output is but ive not run out of headroom on the 50w setting, unmicced. In fact i thought i had a couple of weeks ago and it was sounding weak and insipid but halfway through i realised the gain control on my wireless guitar unit was turned down low. If the amp really isnt working for you move it on. lifes to short to compromise tone ( i saw a teeshirt saying that)

Trude · November 2017

It's not strictly a modelling amp, but what I'm talking about is clean volume basically. The clean channel has a gain knob, which will give you break-up if you push it up. Keeping it below that threshold, I can then make it as loud as I'll ever need with the channel volume, master and power settings.

Plectrum · November 2017

Trude said:

It's not strictly a modelling amp, but what I'm talking about is clean volume basically. The clean channel has a gain knob, which will give you break-up if you push it up. Keeping it below that threshold, I can then make it as loud as I'll ever need with the channel volume, master and power settings.

Just like every other modeller out there then

p90fool · November 2017

Well I've been tweaking all afternoon and I'm about to head out for the gig.

It's funny, it does sound really good at home, but I know as soon as I flip that switch to 50 or 100w it'll sound wildly different, even without touching any other controls.

Even at low volumes though, I think I can hear the problem. @ICBM will be able to explain the topology of how the sounds are actually generated, but the various frequency bands of bass, middle and treble seem almost "pasted on" to the core tone, rather than being a part of what actually produces the tone.

Turning up the bass on the amp feels as if you're boosting the lows on the desk, rather actually generating bottom end as an interactive part of your amp's gain structure.

Even with quite a lot of gain, the low frequencies have a clean, almost rubbery feel to them, for want of better terminology.

I'm really splitting hairs here, all I want it to do is sound the same (within the constraints of how human hearing works) at high volume as it does at medium volume.

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Boss Katana 100 gig report

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