From Digitalscream & TTony

bacchanalian · June 2018

horse said:

bacchanalian said:

Although I have benefited greatly from the forum over the last 18 months or so, including one purchase that I am still delighted with

I'm hoping you are referring to the SG?

@horse the SG was a sensational buy but a close second to the Original Senn I bought from @JohnPerry. In a comedy call back to the Custom Shop Strat thread, it is a non-Fender strat that blows all CS strats out of the water.

The SG and the Senn are some of the reasons the forum should be kept going. If I were in charge I would run as if Kim Jong Un and Anne of Green Gables were mods.

horse · June 2018

bacchanalian said:

horse said:

bacchanalian said:

Although I have benefited greatly from the forum over the last 18 months or so, including one purchase that I am still delighted with

I'm hoping you are referring to the SG?

@horse the SG was a sensational buy but a close second to the Original Senn I bought from @JohnPerry. In a comedy call back to the Custom Shop Strat thread, it is a non-Fender strat that blows all CS strats out of the water.

The SG and the Senn are some of the reasons the forum should be kept going. If I were in charge I would run as if Kim Jong Un and Anne of Green Gables were mods.

I'll take a close second!

poopot · June 2018

Everyone seems to be getting hung up on the classified section, reading between the lines I don’t think it’s about that. @Roland had already said on this thread it’s not a massive issue.

I think it has had more to do with the general rise of “handbags at ten paces” that seems to accompany some threads. I would imagine that resolving these “issues” is nearly a full time (and I assume unpaid) job for both Tony and Lee...

I may be wrong but I think the pair of them own and operate this domain... if that is the case and they are not getting any reward (monetary or emotionally) from this... whats in it for them to actually keep the site live? Why not just turn it off and be done with it?...

I havent been a member here for very long at all, if I’m honest I didn’t know about theFB until another member posted a link to a guitar I was selling on eBay... I signed up to defend the “doesn’t look realistic” and “it’s been overdone” comments about said guitar...

now that was one guitar, being sold by me!... look at how recently ATB guitars got lynched by members on here... look at the constant “chappers” bashing that goes on... look at the recent custom shop thread that had to be closed... the thread this morning about the @Alegree ;pickups video (more comments about the presenters style and hair than the actual product reviewed)...

I get that this is the “internet” and it offers a certain amount of anonymity... but... if you wouldn’t say these things to a person face to face on the real world... DONT say it on here!...

Im not suggesting for one moment that we all need to sit around hugging each other... but... a little more positive posting and a lot less negative posting by folk would have prevented the current situation...

We want more involvement from industry no?
We would like maybe the “deals” and “specials” that industry may offer us were they to become involved no?...

not gonna happen whilst people are so quick to attack the very people that could be of benifit to everyone here!...

pissed off at Gibson’s QC? Send them a tweet, don’t start a thread on just how shit that one particular guitar you tried for five minutes in a box shifting guitar shop on a busy Saturday was... Dont like relics? Fine, don’t jump in and slag off someone who makes their living out of producing them... think the presenter in a product video is a bit of a twat? Again, you are entitled to your opinion, but... how about commenting on the product instead of the presenter?

Everyone has an opinion on something, myself included, just think before you voice that opinion out loud and cause bother!...

Seriously consider it... before it’s too late and the plug gets pulled for good!...

mindless rant over.

****edited some spelling errors!

BloodEagle · June 2018

^ Bang on

fandango · June 2018

Strangefan said:

Does this mean we can now un-ban Drew?

Bridgehouse said:

The only ronnyb said:

[abridged]

....... For them to be this disillusioned really does mean we all need to have a good look at what we post, how we respond to posts, and what we give/take out of this place.

^^^^ this summarises (or what should summarise) our response.

Less of the personal insults, the moaning, the snide, the pointless, and possibly the inappropriate. Let’s have fun but in a positive way. Let tFB become a force for encouragement ...

bingefeller · June 2018

I'm surprised to read this and am also sorry to hear that Tony and Lee are stepping aside. I can tell that they are both very reasonable individuals and if they both feel the need to step aside then things must have really gotten too much.

Whatever you both decide to do I wish you all the best.

John_P · June 2018

poopot said:

Everyone seems to be getting hung up on the classified section, reading between the lines I don’t think it’s about that. @Roland had already said on this thread it’s not a massive issue.

I think it has had more to do with the general rise of “handbags at ten paces” that seems to accompany some threads. I would imagine that resolving these “issues” is nearly a full time (and I assume unpaid) job for both Tony and Lee...

I may be wrong but I think the pair of them own and operate this domain... if that is the case and they are not getting any reward (monetary or emotionally) from this... whats in it for them to actually keep the site live? Why not just turn it off and be done with it?...

I havent been a member here for very long at all, if I’m honest I didn’t know about theFB until another member posted a link to a guitar I was selling on eBay... I signed up to defend the “doesn’t look realistic” and “it’s been overdone” comments about said guitar...

now that was one guitar, being sold by me!... look at how recently ATB guitars got lynched by members on here... look at the constant “chappers” bashing that goes on... look at the recent custom shop thread that had to be closed... the thread this morning about the @Alegree ;pickups video (more comments about the presenters style and hair than the actual product reviewed)...

I get that this is the “internet” and it offers a certain amount of anonymity... but... if you wouldn’t say these things to a person face to face on the real world... DONT say it on here!...

Im not suggesting for one moment that we all need to sit around hugging each other... but... a little more positive posting and a lot less negative posting by folk would have prevented the current situation...

We want more involvement from industry no?
We would like maybe the “deals” and “specials” that industry may offer us were they to become involved no?...

not gonna happen whilst people are so quick to attack the very people that could be of benifit to everyone here!...

pissed off at Gibson’s QC? Send them a tweet, don’t start a thread on just how shit that one particular guitar you tried for five minutes in a box shifting guitar shop on a busy Saturday was... Dont like relics? Fine, don’t jump in and slag off someone who makes their living out of producing them... think the presenter in a product video is a bit of a twat? Again, you are entitled to your opinion, but... how about commenting on the product instead of the presenter?

Everyone has an opinion on something, myself included, just think before you voice that opinion out loud and cause bother!...

Seriously consider it... before it’s too late and the plug gets pulled for good!...

mindless rant over.

****edited some spelling errors!

Fully agree with that, the problem is that a large proportion of people think that it's not them moaning but others are to blame or they aren't reading this type of thread anyway. I don't see any issue with slightly tighter moderation and just deleting comments that a mod thinks are unpleasant - more work for the moderators but compared to many place we have a tiny number so it's not a surprise they fell overstretched.
I remember back in the day before the current system, sorting the trading feedback scores using data from the MR forum and it was a huge task - having a team of people to keep on top of things and promote and steer "their" section of the forum would be the way forward - it would be a shame to lose the knowledge base including people because it becomes too much like hard work keeping it going.

guitarfishbay · June 2018

poopot said:

We want more involvement from industry no?
We would like maybe the “deals” and “specials” that industry may offer us were they to become involved no?...

not gonna happen whilst people are so quick to attack the very people that could be of benifit to everyone here!...

pissed off at Gibson’s QC? Send them a tweet, don’t start a thread on just how shit that one particular guitar you tried for five minutes in a box shifting guitar shop on a busy Saturday was... Dont like relics? Fine, don’t jump in and slag off someone who makes their living out of producing them... think the presenter in a product video is a bit of a twat? Again, you are entitled to your opinion, but... how about commenting on the product instead of the presenter?

Everyone has an opinion on something, myself included, just think before you voice that opinion out loud and cause bother!...

Seriously consider it... before it’s too late and the plug gets pulled for good!...

To achieve this requires active moderation IMO. Relying on self policing of opinions and actions doesn't work at this size of community, you only need a handful of people who want to post destructively, or even just have a bad day and decide to post negatively, for it to impact the vibe of the place.

My understanding is greater moderation is at odds with the light touch ethos that was originally intended.

So I guess for things to change, if that is what's needed, then stricter rules and potentially more moderation is one way to shape it towards that... but then that potentially changes part of the character of the forum.

mcsdan · June 2018

Just back from hols and catching up. Sorry to hear that @TTony and @digitalscream are taking a break but can understand. Thanks guys for the great job you've done since MR went down and sorry to hear it has come to this.

As an admin for some groups online and head of a running club I can well understand the frustrations. My approach has been to delegate i.e. more admins/mods and every so often take a break and let the others take the ropes. Spreads the load, makes others realise what you do and brings in new ideas to the core team. Perhaps a team of admins to manage different sections. I know the light touch ethos was originally intended but sometimes it needs to be more present so that others know what is acceptable and not.

The classifieds used to be quite supportive but have seen a decline with people posting all over others ads negatively. if something is too highly priced then it wont sell and the seller will realise and lower prices. If you don't like what is being sold move on and don't comment. On the otherside of this I have sold/purchased bits on the classifed and tbh everyone has been great and had some good chats with peeps. As already mentioned a form to fill in for classified posts with compulsory fields would help. Lots don't post photos since they find it hard to work it out so an attachment could enable this.

I'd be in favour of the classifieds being only available to paid members. It will deter the freeloaders and non-genuine members and also provides an element of security since membership will be traceable e.g. paypal. Other forums (not guitar) also have very strict rules with bans. For example, all transactions must be done on the thread until a buy/sale is agreed then over to PM for the payment/meet details etc. This keeps the sale transparent to all.

Anyway, hope the break does the job for you guys and you come back with some ideas and support for theFB V2.0 and thanks again for all your hard work behind the scenes.

Stavros · June 2018

Sorry to hear this but fully understand the reasons why. I really hope you are able to return, fully refreshed, but if not then thanks for establishing what is a great forum.

Heartfeltdawn · June 2018

@digitalscream @TTony ;;

I wanted to write at the start of the week but a whoooooooooping gurt gluten attack occurred, first one in three years, and I've been F'd in the A, the H, and possibly the entire Greek alphabet with it.

First, I understand both your reasons for wanting time away. Forums are hard work.

Keeping a forum going long term is even harder. The forums I've known have generally started small with members sharing a common interest. As they got bigger over the first year or two, the members really knew one another and in jokes were rife. Then after a few years, they had expanded to a size where loads of new people joined, in jokes were lost, there were generally a few fights with mods, the odd controversial banning... most of those forums have shrunk to nothing now. The majority started pre-Facebook: I imagine FB was the executioner in the end.

The Classifieds section in here is the best in the country for guitar gear in terms of price and safety. I'm a member of two gear groups on FB. People sell for high, ask for low, and the rate of fraud on there is huge. How much fraud have we had on the Fretboard? Comparatively little and that is to our credit both as sellers and as people who help out in fraud.

I hope the forum continues. I can't think I'll ever have a situation quite as bizarre as that day we got Ross Fingland where for several hours I was working across three computers: one talking to Drew who was talking to a Fingland Persona #1, one talking to Fingland Persona #2 trying to sell me stuff he didn't have that he'd nicked from Drew, and one talking to Bingefeller who was engaged with Fingland Persona #3 on something totally separate. Getting the money back from that thieving shite was bloody satisfying.

VimFuego · June 2018

the longest serving forums I've been on are basically gestalt entities, they are bigger than the members, bigger than the people who founded them, bigger than the admins, the mods and so on. I'm an admin on a gaming forum/guild that was set up in 2002 (I joined in 2010) the people who set it up back then have long since moved on, the people who ran it when those founders moved on have, themselves, moved on. I am at least a 4th gen admin, the guild endures because after I move on, there will be people to take my place, just as I took the place of someone before me and there will be someone to take the place of the person who relieves me.
I think it is a mistake to make a forum about the founders, and I think this is something that has happened here, accept that the forum is bigger than any one member, and bigger than all its members combined, then it will endure.

Guitar_Slinger · June 2018

As Bill & Ted said... Be excellent to each other.

octatonic · June 2018

VimFuego said:

the longest serving forums I've been on are basically gestalt entities, they are bigger than the members, bigger than the people who founded them, bigger than the admins, the mods and so on. I'm an admin on a gaming forum/guild that was set up in 2002 (I joined in 2010) the people who set it up back then have long since moved on, the people who ran it when those founders moved on have, themselves, moved on. I am at least a 4th gen admin, the guild endures because after I move on, there will be people to take my place, just as I took the place of someone before me and there will be someone to take the place of the person who relieves me.
I think it is a mistake to make a forum about the founders, and I think this is something that has happened here, accept that the forum is bigger than any one member, and bigger than all its members combined, then it will endure.

Well I was thinking that maybe we should adopt a totalitarian dynastic model- like DPRK.
Lee and Tony's children inherit the forum and rule it with an iron fist.

If that doesn't happen (and I very much ope it does) then I instead agree with ^^^.

thomasross20 · June 2018

Guitar_Slinger said:

As Bill & Ted said... Be excellent to each other.

Bodacious!

Legionreturns · June 2018

thomasross20 said:

Guitar_Slinger said:

As Bill & Ted said... Be excellent to each other.

Bodacious!

Party on Wayne!

Oh no...wait

JezWynd · June 2018

poopot said:
I get that this is the “internet” and it offers a certain amount of anonymity... but... if you wouldn’t say these things to a person face to face on the real world... DONT say it on here!...

A lot of the ills of the internet could be cured by everyone using their real name. Never going to happen, which is a shame as it would rein in a lot of the incivility. Some of the YouTube comments are unbelievable - the level of rage and hatred that's exposed.

Strat_a_tat_tat · June 2018

JezWynd said:

poopot said:
I get that this is the “internet” and it offers a certain amount of anonymity... but... if you wouldn’t say these things to a person face to face on the real world... DONT say it on here!...

A lot of the ills of the internet could be cured by everyone using their real name. Never going to happen, which is a shame as it would rein in a lot of the incivility. Some of the YouTube comments are unbelievable - the level of rage and hatred that's exposed.

That's exactly what The ProSoundWeb forum does. If you join up with a non-real name, your posts get blocked until you change it. http://forums.prosoundweb.com/

richardhomer · June 2018

JezWynd said:
A lot of the ills of the internet could be cured by everyone using their real name. Never going to happen, which is a shame as it would rein in a lot of the incivility. Some of the YouTube comments are unbelievable - the level of rage and hatred that's exposed.

Which is why I use my real name - I haven’t ‘always’ got it right on here - but knowing it’s got ‘my name on it’ has probably stopped me going too far in most instances....

Bridgehouse · June 2018

richardhomer said:

JezWynd said:
A lot of the ills of the internet could be cured by everyone using their real name. Never going to happen, which is a shame as it would rein in a lot of the incivility. Some of the YouTube comments are unbelievable - the level of rage and hatred that's exposed.

Which is why I use my real name - I haven’t ‘always’ got it right on here - but knowing it’s got ‘my name on it’ has probably stopped me going too far in most instances....

I have a lot of respect for anyone who uses their real name on a forum like this.

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