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I should have been patient and left it when I noticed the problem at the second fret but I'd convinced myself I wanted a Gibson so it was a bit impulsive that I took it rather than leaving it.
I really should have waited for a bit before modding it too then I could have returned it but again I was in a bit of an impulse.
At the moment I've changed the pickups to P90s and the tuners to Schallers. If nothing can be realistic done about the flaws I'll just kind of see it as a guitar that I'm not afraid to ding which could be "freeing" in a weird way. Just trying to make the best of as bad situation.
Initially I was planning to sell it but I'm very busy and rarely at home so the thought of going through the hassle of selling it just didn't seem worth it.
My nephews ESP LTD is an amazing instrument. All Gibson need to do is put a bit more CNC in and a better QA program. That’s how everyone else does it.
I've only bought one Gibson new, a 2016 LP Standard. I played half a dozen, pretty similar tone and feel, and didn't spot any QC issues with them. I left it with the shop for a week for them to set it up to my preference and choice of strings and they did 2 years warranty instead of one. Couldn't be happier - maybe I was lucky?
Even my p90 junior special has a similar thing.
I've come across quite a few new Gibsons that have had QC issues. To make it worse, none of them were really difficult to fix; over spray, poor finish quality (just needed a bit more buffing), sharp fret ends, bad final setups.
I think the worst one was a LP standard I used to own, the inlays were cut by Heath Robinson himself, with a spoon!
That said, of all the Gibsons ever manufactured I've played and seen a tiny fraction of a drop in the ocean so it's hardly indicative of all of their output.
And as far as internet hate for Gibson QC goes, take it with a pinch of salt; people rarely offload to the internet about how amazing their new guitar/car/dishwasher/etc is.
There is no 'H' in Aych, you know that don't you? ~ Wife
Turns out there is an H in Haych! ~ Sporky
Bit of trading feedback here.
The more serious faults like this that I've seen couldn't possibly have been *not* noticed by more than one employee either. To continue using this example (and I'm not exaggerating by the way - the top E string was literally off the side of the fingerboard by the time it got above the body joint), the person who put the strings on and the person who play-tested it and signed it off at the very least *must* have noticed something wasn't right. We are not talking about a bottom-of-the-range model either, this guitar cost well over three grand.
That said, when I looked at an SG Les Paul that wouldn't stay in tune properly because the sideways vibrola was fitted off-centre, I found a pic online of an original 60s one with exactly the same fault! It's nothing new.
And for balance, my favourite acoustic guitar I've ever played is the 2008 Gibson Dove I own. It isn't flawless - the top edge of the headstock was never polished after finishing - but other than that it is, and it simply sounds and plays beautifully.
"Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski
"Only two things are infinite - the universe, and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
From everything I've read it's a horrible place to work - anyone flagging any issues with anything (not just QC) gets in shit themselves for slowing things down or being a "troublemaker", rather than having management take a step back and look at what might actually be causing problems. I suspect that's partly because the ultimate cause os a lot of issues is Henry himself, who doesn't seem to be able to take criticism on any level.
That then extends to the production line, where it appears to be more important to get a certain number of tasks done in a day, and doing the right number badly is considered better than doing 90% but to a much higher standard. Again, going back to the PRS comparison, empowering everyone to do the job properly and also having everyone on the line responsible for QC checks of all previous steps seems to be a much better process and results in a much better end product.
But the brand value is very strong - we all accept that Gibsons can have minor flaws but there is no choice if you want that name on the headstock. And when they get it right they're unquestionably among the best instruments you can buy.
Also a lot of people are really picky about smaller details. I've seen this happen from time to time.
Almost like they bought the guitar to stare at, rather then to play.
My own encounters with Gibson’s lack of good QC haven’t been as dramatic.
A neck misalignment as bad as you’ve described shouldn’t have even made it to finishing and final assembly in my opinion, let alone be checked off as passed and placed in a case and shipped.
There is no 'H' in Aych, you know that don't you? ~ Wife
Turns out there is an H in Haych! ~ Sporky
Bit of trading feedback here.
In a thread about PRS you would get many who don’t like them, but few who could highlight QC flaws.
the next question is how they deal with those issues when they do occur....
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I have seen some truly terrible high-end Gibson models when I worked in music stores in the '90s, misaligned necks, twisted necks, hardware installed out of alignment and lots of finishing issues.
As already mentioned PRS don't suffer from any of this.
What most modern makers (and I include Fender in this) seem to have done, is find better ways of machining parts, to eliminate ‘builder error’. Gibson - for reasons I don’t understand - still set neck angles by hand - hence the level of variation.
I don’t actually think Gibson’s quality has changed that much over the years - they make vast numbers of guitars and have always let ones out that shouldn’t have been.
Through connections with the music trade I've been to NAAM a few times. My pals have made lot's of connections there and one time we stayed at the Manager of the Gibson Dobro plants apartment for the duration. He was off from work to be at NAAM but got called in to the factory and asked if we would like to go with him and then straight to Anaheim.
Yes please!
I got the shock of my life. It was a very dirty, dark place. The way they were operating was beyond belief. There were about a dozen or so workers there, all migrants, and only two spoke decent English.
One was better than the other so we were told he had been made the foreman as he could pass on instructions to the others. Nothing to do with his mechanical skills.
The problem he had been called in for was because the necks were being set in at the wrong angle resulting in an action of about 5/8ths of an inch at the body. The guy who had been doing that job had left and there was nobody there skilled enough to take over.
The Foremen brought it to light because they had just had a batch of guitars rejected by a dealer arrive back the day before and he wanted to know what to do about it.
The Manager was a really nice guy but he had only management skills and zero practical skills so couldn't explain how to rectify it.
I picked up a couple of the completed guitars and they were totally unplayable. Pressing any fret down caused a seriously sharp note.
The Manager friend left not long after and I don't know if they ever sorted it but I believe, not sure, they are closed now.
Going back to that J-185, it was definitely the neck joint that was the problem there too - my first thought was that the bridge had been fitted off-centre, but I checked it and it hadn't. Sideways misalignment is much less common than up/down or lengthways though.
It's this that's the problem - all manufacturing processes produce out-of-tolerance examples. The key is to reject them at an early enough stage for them to be reworked correctly, or to take a deep breath and scrap the finished product if it isn't good enough.
Apparently one of the jobs Paul Smith still does at the PRS factory is to bandsaw the ones that can't be saved.
Gibson put a line through the inspection tick-boxes and ship the guitar...
"Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski
"Only two things are infinite - the universe, and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
The only fault I can find with it is a red mark on the end of the neck, just under the fingerboard edge in front of the neck pickup. Apart from that it’s flawless.
No idea where that red mark came from, looks like something has rubbed off from a tool or something. As it’s over the white paint on end grain, it’s not the smoothest finish in that area so I haven’t attempted to remove it.
Its only a small mark so it bothers me very little and it’s otherwise a fabulous guitar.
You can just see it here:
https://imgur.com/gallery/h2A4YWI
There is no 'H' in Aych, you know that don't you? ~ Wife
Turns out there is an H in Haych! ~ Sporky
Bit of trading feedback here.