Number of Tremolo Springs - and the Effects Thereof

jaymenon · September 2018

With a tremolo set in a 'floating' position String tension = Spring Tension.
Bridge rests in a neutral position.

Increase the number of tremolo springs, bridge is pulled back and tuning sharpens.
So we loosen the screws of the spring claw.

Reduce the number of springs, bridge moves 'nutwards' and tuning flattens.
So we tighten the screws of the spring claw.

This maintains the balance between String tension and Spring Tension

I wonder though - what are the other practical effects of reducing or increasing the number of tremolo springs?

I've noticed that with my Strat, when I bend strings they tend to return slightly flat.
A quick depress of the tremolo arm sharpens the string back to pitch.

(Assuming a well cut nut, good tuning machines and no string trees) this is apparently due to the string 'hanging' at two points
1. the non locking saddles and
2. the break point on the upper surface of the baseplate.

The phenomenon still exists but is genuinely less obvious on my Gotoh FST tremolo, where the strings do not touch the baseplate - the only point of contact is at the saddle.

If I were to use less springs, the bridge will move nutwards more easily when I bend a string. Will that reduce the string hanging at the saddles and so the tendency to return flat after a string bend? If so, that should improve tuning stability right...?

Since spring tension remains constant, I wonder - is there an effect on tone, when one increases or reduces the number of tremolo springs? (with the tremolo still 'floating')

Finally - 'noiseless tremolo springs' like these
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SSB-Silent-Springs-x3-NOISELESS-tremolo-guitar-bridge-upgrade-strat-floyd-rose/152354440552?epid=1959651070&hash=item2379084568:g:LA8AAOSw6dNWTf6j

I just wrap PTFE tape around my springs - is that just as good?

Expert opinions very much appreciated.

viz · September 2018

According to Hooke, force is proportional to extension, and therefore the number of springs shouldn’t affect the tension due to the fact that in order to keep the system in balance, a single spring will have to be more extended than 3 or 5 parallel springs. However the tremolo action will feel looser or tighter depending on number of springs because the distance required to increase (or reduce) the tension is related to the spring constant, and three springs in parallel have 3x the spring constant of one spring.

ICBM · September 2018

I find more springs gives slightly better tuning stability, at the expense of a stiffer feel both of the arm and when bending.

More springs gives a greater spring constant, so the force trying to bring the bridge back to the rest position is greater for a given movement away from it.

A well-cut nut and lubrication in the grooves and under the string tree is more effective than adding springs to try to solve tuning problems though.

richardhomer · September 2018

Assuming the bridge moves freely with no strings, or springs (with the guitar lying on a flat surface, each of the six screws should be tightened just to the point where the rear of the bridge lifts off the body - then backed off just enough so it lies flat again) - any tuning issues are likely to be nut/string tree related.

More springs = stiffer trem feel, fewer = lighter feel. The only tuning issue which is a side effect of (say) two springs, is that palm muting is likely to push the bridge down, causing the tuning to sharpen.

jaymenon · September 2018

richardhomer said:

More springs = stiffer trem feel, fewer = lighter feel. The only tuning issue which is a side effect of (say) two springs, is that palm muting is likely to push the bridge down, causing the tuning to sharpen.

I know instinctively that this is correct.

What I don’t understand however, is the fact that irrespective of the number of springs used, theIr tension should equal that of the strings.

A set of 10-46 at concert pitch = 102.5lb of tension. Therefore, the springs are also exerting that same 102.5lbs.

So with fewer springs, why is the tremolo more easy to move? (in either direction)

Dan · September 2018

I use 5x raw vintage springs on all my strats. They seems to have a tension in the same area as 3x standard springs but tuning seems to hold up a bit better. Also seem to think they sound a smidge better too.

viz · September 2018

jaymenon said:

What I don’t understand however, is the fact that irrespective of the number of springs used, theIr tension should equal that of the strings.

A set of 10-46 at concert pitch = 102.5lb of tension. Therefore, the springs are also exerting that same 102.5lbs.

So with fewer springs, why is the tremolo more easy to move? (in either direction)

Because when you pull up on the tremolo arm you increase the tension of the strings; with one spring (which is already extended by the way) the change in tension requires greater extension, so it feels looser - i.e., you have to pull up more distance with less force to achieve the same increased tension.

(Edited earlier post)

guitars4you · September 2018

5 springs - trem plate flat to the belly of the guitar - You do achieve more 'life' 'resonance' or a ' more vibrant' voice - what ever you want to call it - You can still have down pitch, albeit stiff, if you get the setting right on the spring tension, via adjusting the claw

ICBM · September 2018

What viz said. By adjusting the claw to change the length of the springs, you achieve the same force at the rest position, but more springs make the force change more rapidly as you move away from that, so a stiffer feel and a more positive return to the rest position.

This does help overcome any minor friction at the bridge screws, which is probably why it gives slightly better tuning stability - but the nut is more usually the cause of trouble.

markr76 · September 2018

Dan said:

I use 5x raw vintage springs on all my strats. They seems to have a tension in the same area as 3x standard springs but tuning seems to hold up a bit better. Also seem to think they sound a smidge better too.

+1 On this. I also upgraded my springs to raw vintage on my cs 62' reissue. I too think the tone was improved on the guitar. Slightly fatter, warmer sounding. The natural reverb effect that strats have is sweeter too.

Lebarque · September 2018

Dan said:

I use 5x raw vintage springs on all my strats. They seems to have a tension in the same area as 3x standard springs but tuning seems to hold up a bit better. Also seem to think they sound a smidge better too.

^ What he said

jaymenon · September 2018

guitars4you said:

5 springs - trem plate flat to the belly of the guitar - You do achieve more 'life' 'resonance' or a ' more vibrant' voice - what ever you want to call it - You can still have down pitch, albeit stiff, if you get the setting right on the spring tension, via adjusting the claw

So if you ‘deck’ the baseplate flat to the body of the guitar, does the material / thickness of the tremolo block make a difference? Or is that only relevant when the bridge is floating?

guitars4you · September 2018

jaymenon said:

guitars4you said:

5 springs - trem plate flat to the belly of the guitar - You do achieve more 'life' 'resonance' or a ' more vibrant' voice - what ever you want to call it - You can still have down pitch, albeit stiff, if you get the setting right on the spring tension, via adjusting the claw

So if you ‘deck’ the baseplate flat to the body of the guitar, does the material / thickness of the tremolo block make a difference? Or is that only relevant when the bridge is floating?

you can change the whole trem assembly for something like a Callaham, or similar - They will use 'different or superior materials' that should improve the guitars tonal character/response - There is a difference but we are talking about marginal gains - So yes you can upgrade the trem - The upgrade is noticeable be it flat or floating - The choice of flat or floating is totally your choice and what you want to get out of the trem

There is no definitive way to set up such a trem - Jeff Beck, Hank Marvin, SRV and Clapton will set up in a different manner

HAL9000 · September 2018

guitars4you said:

There is no definitive way to set up such a trem - Jeff Beck, Hank Marvin, SRV and Clapton will set up in a different manner

Clapton’s set up is very different from the others mentioned there ;-)

HAL9000 · September 2018

jaymenon said:

So if you ‘deck’ the baseplate flat to the body of the guitar, does the material / thickness of the tremolo block make a difference? Or is that only relevant when the bridge is floating?

Mine is ‘decked’ and has had the original alloy block replaced with a steel one. Yes it does make a subtle, but nonetheless noticeable, difference.

ICBM · September 2018

HAL9000 said:

Clapton’s set up is very different from the others mentioned there ;-)

Slightly

.

But even then, he said he prefers a fully blocked 5-spring trem to a hardtail - and they do sound different, the springs still add some resonance.

The only way to 'fix' that is to do what I saw on a 70s Strat once... the whole cavity - block, springs and all - filled with casting resin :-O. Needless to say it got left like that...

guitars4you · September 2018

HAL9000 said:

guitars4you said:

There is no definitive way to set up such a trem - Jeff Beck, Hank Marvin, SRV and Clapton will set up in a different manner

Clapton’s set up is very different from the others mentioned there ;-)

that is what I said or tried to say - All 4 of the above adopt a different set-up - albeit JB tends to use a 2 point modern fulcrum trem

There are correct ways to set it up for tuning stability regarding top nut and the 6 mounting wood screws - But floating a bit or floating more, flat like EC with no movement at all and the wood block, or flat with 5 springs and still some option of down pitch movement, are all a matter of taste

jaymenon · September 2018

I wonder - on a vintage 6-screw tremolo (obviously non-recessed) using 5 springs and tightening the screws of the claw would pull the baseplate flat against the body.

Under these circumstances, bending individual strings would not cause the bridge to pull forwards and flatten the other strings. So effectively, a hard tail.

So what further advantage does blocking a Tremolo with a block wood confer?

guitars4you · September 2018

jaymenon said:

I wonder - on a vintage 6-screw tremolo (obviously non-recessed) using 5 springs and tightening the screws of the claw would pull the baseplate flat against the body.

Under these circumstances, bending individual strings would not cause the bridge to pull forwards and flatten the other strings. So effectively, a hard tail.

So what further advantage does blocking a Tremolo with a block wood confer?

blocking the trem is almost a feature used by EC and few others - it means the trem won't work at all - Not sure it offers any advantage - just a preference - You could ask why not then utilise a fixed bridge in the first place, but they sound different to a blocked off trem assembly

You are right with 5 springs and baseplate flat, then string bending won't pull the bridge forward - However there is a finite point on the set up of this with the 5 springs/claw adjustment, where the trem can still go down in pitch, but won't move under regular string bending - You'll need to adjust accordingly to find this 'sweet spot' - Depends if you actually want any trem down pitch movement

CloudNine · September 2018

4 Raw Vintage for me, floating. Seemed to be a sweet spot on mine.

thermionic · September 2018

OK I’ve just googled Raw Vintage springs and and some of the claims from people who’ve tried them are hard to believe. Anybody want to try convincing me by physics?

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Number of Tremolo Springs - and the Effects Thereof

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