New Schaller strap lock design

TINMAN82 · September 2018

Anyone else tried the new Schaller S-locks? As far as I can tell they are fully replacing the old style, although old and new mechanisms are cross compatable.

The release button/ post (on your strap) seems to have improved with a nice chunky finger locking wheel instead of the old nut and washer. It’s meant to be quieter too.

I’m not so sure about the strap button though. It’s now an all in one design with a chunky, built in screw which takes an allan key, not screwdriver. On the old buttons I kind of liked the option (on many guitars depending on the original screw size) to use the original screw with the Schaller button. It seemed neat not always having to alter the original screw hole with the Schaller screw. Now you have no option but to drive the all in one Schaller pin into your guitar... In many cases this won’t be reversible as the original hole will be re-tapped wider.

ICBM · September 2018

It’s always reversible - you glue in a piece of wood (pieces of toothpick are actually ideal) and refit the old screw.

I can see why they would do this, because the problem with the old ones is that the Schaller screw is just too thin for some guitars - the rear button on Gibsons in particular - but the original screw won’t go through the Schaller button. (Although I’m not convinced the S-Lock screw is big enough for that either.)

It also avoids the problem that the Schaller button can tip sideways and cut into the finish, because the pull from the strap is too far from the surface of the body. And if you use felt washers to stop this, it’s possible for the screw to snap as the button tilts, which is a much more serious problem to fix, as well as dropping the guitar... very rare, but I’ve come across a couple.

I still think the Dunlop ‘Ergo’ locks that fit over the original strap buttons are a better solution than any replacement straplocks.

Sporky · September 2018

ICBM said:

I still think the Dunlop ‘Ergo’ locks that fit over the original strap buttons are a better solution than any replacement straplocks.

I like those, but they feel awfully cheap.

TINMAN82 · September 2018

ICBM said:

It’s always reversible - you glue in a piece of wood (pieces of toothpick are actually ideal) and refit the old screw.

I can see why they would do this, because the problem with the old ones is that the Schaller screw is just too thin for some guitars - the rear button on Gibsons in particular - but the original screw won’t go through the Schaller button. (Although I’m not convinced the S-Lock screw is big enough for that either.)

It also avoids the problem that the Schaller button can tip sideways and cut into the finish, because the pull from the strap is too far from the surface of the body. And if you use felt washers to stop this, it’s possible for the screw to snap as the button tilts, which is a much more serious problem to fix, as well as dropping the guitar... very rare, but I’ve come across a couple.

I still think the Dunlop ‘Ergo’ locks that fit over the original strap buttons are a better solution than any replacement straplocks.

True about the rear button on Gibson’s. I’ve just fitted an s-lock button on the rear of my new es-335 for this reason. The s-lock screw diameter and length were very similar to the original screw.

On the back of the body however, I’ve used an old style Schaller button with the original screw (thinner and quite a bit shorter than s-lock). Couldn’t bring myself to use the s-lock there.

btw I know you can reverse with mods, don’t like the idea of toothpicks etc if it can be avoided!

ICBM · September 2018

TINMAN82 said:

btw I know you can reverse with mods, don’t like the idea of toothpicks etc if it can be avoided!

They're a very good repair method. It's actually stronger than the original hole will be, unless the thread - not just the diameter - of the original screw is identical to the Schaller one, which will otherwise cut a new thread and weaken the wood.

The key is actually to put the glue and toothpicks in, then put the screw in immediately without waiting for it to dry or drilling it out again - that way the fibres of the toothpick get crushed and compressed around the old thread in the hole and form a very strong composite when the glue sets.

I actually quite often do this with any strap button screw I don't think is quite tight enough in the wood - at the end of the day, no straplock is worth anything if the button comes off the guitar...

ThorpyFX · September 2018

I had several screws be far too small in the old schaller strap,locks. However what I’d do is take the original screw from the guitar, put it in a drill and spin it up. Then I’d apply a file to the screw head until the diameter fitted the schaller.

ICBM · September 2018

ThorpyFX said:

I had several screws be far too small in the old schaller strap,locks. However what I’d do is take the original screw from the guitar, put it in a drill and spin it up. Then I’d apply a file to the screw head until the diameter fitted the schaller.

Yes, I do that as well. You can also drill out the button (not Schallers usually, but some others) slightly if necessary to fit a fatter screw.

I always prefer to use the biggest screw that will sensibly go through the button. Many manufacturers use pathetically small ones, even when the button will take a bigger one - both diameter and length, I'm never happy unless the screw goes at least an inch into the guitar.

Pulled-out strap buttons are one of the most common repairs and causes of serious damage like broken headstocks.

The one thing that really does frustrate me is seeing guitars with multiple holes where the button has pulled out and the owner has just made a new hole... very often more than once, since if the screw has pulled out in the first place it's almost certainly too small.

not_the_dj · September 2018

ICBM said:

It’s always reversible - you glue in a piece of wood (pieces of toothpick are actually ideal) and refit the old screw.

@ICBM what glue do you use for this?....and idiots guide to this fix would be great ;-)

ICBM · September 2018

not_the_dj said:

@ICBM what glue do you use for this?

Standard white PVA is fine for this - the normal squeeze bottle makes it easy to inject into the hole.

not_the_dj said:

...and idiots guide to this fix would be great ;-)

Hold the guitar with the hole facing directly upwards (ie stand it on the headstock, if you're fixing the rear button.)

Put glue in the hole.

Put the toothpick in as far as it will go and break off flush with the surface.

If it's a big-ish hole, put another length in and repeat until the hole is fairly full. A stripped strap button hole might take up to 3 pieces.

Wipe away any excess glue and splinters of toothpick.

Put the screw and button back in.

If any more glue has been forced out, wipe that away too.

That's it...

Jalapeno · September 2018

Sporky said:

ICBM said:

I still think the Dunlop ‘Ergo’ locks that fit over the original strap buttons are a better solution than any replacement straplocks.

I like those, but they feel awfully cheap.

Never found them as reliable as Grolsch rubber washers ......

Jalapeno · September 2018

ICBM said:

not_the_dj said:

@ICBM what glue do you use for this?

Standard white PVA is fine for this - the normal squeeze bottle makes it easy to inject into the hole.

not_the_dj said:

...and idiots guide to this fix would be great ;-)

Hold the guitar with the hole facing directly upwards (ie stand it on the headstock, if you're fixing the rear button.)

Put glue in the hole.

Put the toothpick in as far as it will go and break off flush with the surface.

If it's a big-ish hole, put another length in and repeat until the hole is fairly full. A stripped strap button hole might take up to 3 pieces.

Wipe away any excess glue and splinters of toothpick.

Put the screw and button back in.

If any more glue has been forced out, wipe that away too.

That's it...

Different glue, but that's how I repair pulled screws out of walls too. PVA is actually not too bad, but No-More-Nails is bomb-proof !

ICBM · September 2018

Jalapeno said:

Never found them as reliable as Grolsch rubber washers ......

It may depend on the shape of the strap buttons on your/my guitars... I've always found it far too easy to pull the Grolsch washer off with the strap - especially on Gibson and Rickenbacker buttons - which rather defeats the point. They're better than nothing, but far from ideal.

I was initially sceptical about the Dunlops, but I tested one to destruction by screwing a strap button to a plank of wood with a big screw, and trying to pull the lock off with a strap - it finally broke with about 100lb of pull on it. After that I trusted them.

Jalapeno said:

Different glue, but that's how I repair pulled screws out of walls too. PVA is actually not too bad, but No-More-Nails is bomb-proof !

You don't actually want totally bombproof for a guitar - you want to be able to get the screw out again if you have to. PVA doesn't bond to metal, so you can... No More Nails is claimed to stick metal.

not_the_dj · September 2018

Thanks @ICBM I'll give it a go.

Wazmeister · September 2018

Ive used Schaller for years, and just fitted the ‘new’ type.

Superb, an improvement and also can retro fit to the old ones

EricTheWeary · September 2018

Speaking as Mr DIY Incompetent I have successfully fixed strap buttons with wooden cocktail sticks and wood glue. Also fixed the hinges on a door and it's held for the last few years so far.

TINMAN82 · September 2018

ICBM said:

not_the_dj said:

@ICBM what glue do you use for this?

Standard white PVA is fine for this - the normal squeeze bottle makes it easy to inject into the hole.

not_the_dj said:

...and idiots guide to this fix would be great ;-)

Hold the guitar with the hole facing directly upwards (ie stand it on the headstock, if you're fixing the rear button.)

Put glue in the hole.

Put the toothpick in as far as it will go and break off flush with the surface.

If it's a big-ish hole, put another length in and repeat until the hole is fairly full. A stripped strap button hole might take up to 3 pieces.

Wipe away any excess glue and splinters of toothpick.

Put the screw and button back in.

If any more glue has been forced out, wipe that away too.

That's it...

Fully accept this is the conventional method and it works.

But, as someone whose day job is using screws etc, this worries me a bit as you are effectively converting a screw (rotational device which runs within its thread) into a nail. Reliance on compressed matchstick/glue for hold. Surely with time, stress and vibration from the guitar this nail will loosen, creating the same problem again?

TINMAN82 · September 2018

Wazmeister said:

Ive used Schaller for years, and just fitted the ‘new’ type.

Superb, an improvement and also can retro fit to the old ones

Jury still out with me. The locking mechanism/ wheel fits to the strap far more conveniently. Downside is it’s taller/higher profile than the old style. Also harder to remove one handed (as is necessary when balancing guitar).

Also, the fixed button-screw construct has uncovered a slightly less than straight rear pin drill hole. I think this was being masked by the original screw and button as there was probably some play which allowed the button to sit flush despite a slightly angled screw. The s-lock button goes in and remains at a slight angle.

hmm. Following some research I’ve ordered a mojoaxe replacement button which is designed to accept and comes with a thicker Gibson style rear screw (old Schaller buttons don’t accommodate the head). Hopefully I can seat that button flush as with the factory installed one.

underdog · September 2018

TINMAN82 said:

ICBM said:

not_the_dj said:

@ICBM what glue do you use for this?

Standard white PVA is fine for this - the normal squeeze bottle makes it easy to inject into the hole.

not_the_dj said:

...and idiots guide to this fix would be great ;-)

Hold the guitar with the hole facing directly upwards (ie stand it on the headstock, if you're fixing the rear button.)

Put glue in the hole.

Put the toothpick in as far as it will go and break off flush with the surface.

If it's a big-ish hole, put another length in and repeat until the hole is fairly full. A stripped strap button hole might take up to 3 pieces.

Wipe away any excess glue and splinters of toothpick.

Put the screw and button back in.

If any more glue has been forced out, wipe that away too.

That's it...

Fully accept this is the conventional method and it works.

But, as someone whose day job is using screws etc, this worries me a bit as you are effectively converting a screw (rotational device which runs within its thread) into a nail. Reliance on compressed matchstick/glue for hold. Surely with time, stress and vibration from the guitar this nail will loosen, creating the same problem again?

How does it become a nail? The cocktails sticks compress around the threads of the screw, it can still be unscrewed but not pulled out once glue has set.

ICBM · September 2018

underdog said:

Fully accept this is the conventional method and it works.
But, as someone whose day job is using screws etc, this worries me a bit as you are effectively converting a screw (rotational device which runs within its thread) into a nail. Reliance on compressed matchstick/glue for hold. Surely with time, stress and vibration from the guitar this nail will loosen, creating the same problem again?

How does it become a nail? The cocktails sticks compress around the threads of the screw, it can still be unscrewed but not pulled out once glue has set.

Exactly. What you've done is created an extremely strong composite thread cast into the body. The screw is still threaded into it.

This is also why it's best to *not* drill out the hole to clear it first - if you leave the rough remains of the stripped thread in place, the wood fibres and glue bond around this as well, making certain that the cast-in thread cannot be pulled out of the body either.

This method is really effective and permanent - I use it for stripped Fender neck screws too, and it's so strong that when I deliberately tested it to destruction, the head of the screw snapped off before the thread stripped again.

TINMAN82 · September 2018

underdog said:

TINMAN82 said:

ICBM said:

not_the_dj said:

@ICBM what glue do you use for this?

Standard white PVA is fine for this - the normal squeeze bottle makes it easy to inject into the hole.

not_the_dj said:

...and idiots guide to this fix would be great ;-)

Hold the guitar with the hole facing directly upwards (ie stand it on the headstock, if you're fixing the rear button.)

Put glue in the hole.

Put the toothpick in as far as it will go and break off flush with the surface.

If it's a big-ish hole, put another length in and repeat until the hole is fairly full. A stripped strap button hole might take up to 3 pieces.

Wipe away any excess glue and splinters of toothpick.

Put the screw and button back in.

If any more glue has been forced out, wipe that away too.

That's it...

Fully accept this is the conventional method and it works.

But, as someone whose day job is using screws etc, this worries me a bit as you are effectively converting a screw (rotational device which runs within its thread) into a nail. Reliance on compressed matchstick/glue for hold. Surely with time, stress and vibration from the guitar this nail will loosen, creating the same problem again?

How does it become a nail? The cocktails sticks compress around the threads of the screw, it can still be unscrewed but not pulled out once glue has set.

In the sense that a screw is drilled and tapped and, by running in a thread, moves forwards and backwards through rotation.

With the matchstick method, the screw is being jammed in with matchsticks and glue (like you’d jam a nail in). It may be secure but it’s not running in a thread, particularly if it’s jammed in when the glue is wet as was suggested. I’ve used the method with a stripped pick guard screw in the past. But I’d be concerned that the rear pin is under a lot of strain and could toggle loose over time.

underdog · September 2018

I've done this repair in the past, if you put 2 or 3 cocktail sticks in then you have to screw the screw back in, you can't just push it, so the thread is recut on the way in, glue sets, thread intact and new wood compressed and glued to old wood.

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