Flipping

grappagreen · September 2018

I can sympathise with your view...

I’ve accepted that it’s a fact of life but I’m just too naive and think that everyone’s into guitars because they’re into ‘guitars’ not profit..

I don’t have an Issues with bona fide retailers/dealers. That’s because their up front about it..

Si

mli3 · September 2018

Oh god... this is going to turn into one of “those” threads.

Dominic · September 2018

I really don't see the issue with this.
Whether they are a dealer or not - If you are happy to sell so be it.
Would you underwrite them if they lose £200 ?
Pay your money and take your choice.
If it was such a certain bargain you would have been flooded with buyers and would have sold it for the best price -if this chap was the only buyer then you still sold it at the best price !
If you genuinely had a few buyers and sold it considerably cheaper to somebody because they gave you a convincing sob story and you were kind then they are a shitty person but ultimately if their funds cleared and they didn't give you forged cash then you did a deal and shouldn't be "looking over the fence " as they say in the car dealing business.
A few hundred quid or less by the time he has managed to sell is neither here nor there....dinner for 4 in crappy old Pizza Express is going to cost you £85 these days .

TTony · September 2018

mli3 said:

Oh god... this is going to turn into one of “those” threads.

Yup. There'll be someone along to post a pic of some popcorn soon too.

Rabs · September 2018

Is this where the saying, Flipping Hell comes from.......?

mli3 · September 2018

@Rabs very good

robgilmo · September 2018

DB1 said:

robgilmo said:

I bought my last guitar from a guy just like you, lovely guy, wanted to make sure everything was just right, insisted that I plug it in to make sure it was working etc, kept it for me because of a scarf joint in the neck that we both were unsure about while I went and did some research, told me everything he knew about the guitar, a proper , genuine bloke who genuinely wanted his guitar to go to someone who would appreciate it. If I were to sell it on eBay Id probably make 30 or 40 quid on it, I wont though, Im still in a honeymoon period with it, I am quite liking it. However, when I go to look at a guitar to buy its hard to decide there and then if it will grow on me or not, even if it does tick all the boxes on the day or after a week, or a month of playing it it might not just be right. I am sure if I could afford to walk into a shop and try and buy new Id find something that fits perfectly but the second hand market isnt like that.
So I guess my point is some people flip guitars not to be annoying, and sometimes not to make money, but just because they want to find that guitar that's just right, and for me 15 mins in a strangers living room usually doesnt give me all I need and so I base my decision to buy loosely on what I know and what I want.

I bought a Strat, Mexican one, not too long ago, the guy just wanted rid of it as he couldn't play it. I had a quick strum on his drive way, paid my money then took it home. Lovely it was, sounded just like a Strat, really really lovely, it was back up for sale a month or less later because I cant play a Strat.

Very good points! I've only taken playing 'seriously' for a couple of years, but my interest has grown and grown, and I've wanted to try different guitars, and, yes, to build up a collection, which I have, albeit a modest collection. In doing that, I've bought and sold probably getting on for 70 over the last two years, from Peaveys, Epi's, Peerless, to Gibson, Gretsch, Fender, etc - there have been many occasions that I've played in a shop, or someone's house, and decided 'this is the one'! and then not taken to it. My recent experience, I'm willing to bet, wasn't one of those scenarios though.

70! Waw, I hope it doesnt take me that many to fill my Les Paul gap, and my p90 gap, and my hollow electric gap, and my.....

Guitar_Slinger · September 2018

TTony said:

Garthy said:

Hands up who wouldn't sell something for the best price you can get even if it's more than you paid for it, including houses?

You don't typically buy houses from "mates" on an internet forum.

I offered something for sale last week for £25 (about 12%) cheaper thann it was on eBay, in case anyone here wanted it.

It was a bit of a risk because of flippers, but I went with the community discount thing anyway.

P.S. Top tip:. if the metal puller on your gig bag zip ever breaks, replace it with a FretBoard bottle opener

DB1 · September 2018

Dominic said:

I really don't see the issue with this.
Whether they are a dealer or not - If you are happy to sell so be it.
Would you underwrite them if they lose £200 ?
Pay your money and take your choice.
If it was such a certain bargain you would have been flooded with buyers and would have sold it for the best price -if this chap was the only buyer then you still sold it at the best price !
If you genuinely had a few buyers and sold it considerably cheaper to somebody because they gave you a convincing sob story and you were kind then they are a shitty person but ultimately if their funds cleared and they didn't give you forged cash then you did a deal and shouldn't be "looking over the fence " as they say in the car dealing business.
A few hundred quid or less by the time he has managed to sell is neither here nor there....dinner for 4 in crappy old Pizza Express is going to cost you £85 these days .

For me, the issue is about transparency - in my case, I did have other people interested, but the chap seemed to be an enthusiast. I did ask if he was a dealer, but only out of interest, as I'd clocked his name before, selling some great guitars that were right up my street. The guitar had been on sale for a day and I thought he was jumping at the chance to buy this particular model for himself. I knew it was a bloody good price, but I didn't mind, as I thought it was going to a good home, When it comes to it, it doesn't really matter I suppose, and if someone wants to do that for the sake of a couple of hundred quid or so, it's not going to stop my world from turning. I have no problem with people making a profit in general though - I should emphasise that.

Wazmeister · September 2018

Name and shame mate, name and shame

robgilmo · September 2018

Whats the shame in selling a guitar for profit?
Edit - disregard that, on my fourth Guinness, forgot what we were talking about.

DB1 · September 2018

Wazmeister said:

Name and shame mate, name and shame

I don't know if you were replying to me (sorry!) but in my case it was done through eBay and not through here, so it's 'off forum' in all aspects. I was annoyed for a bit, as I felt a bit 'conned' but it won't stop me getting the kettle on and getting the biscuits out next time. :-)

leerocker · September 2018

DB1 said:

Dominic said:

I really don't see the issue with this.
Whether they are a dealer or not - If you are happy to sell so be it.
Would you underwrite them if they lose £200 ?
Pay your money and take your choice.
If it was such a certain bargain you would have been flooded with buyers and would have sold it for the best price -if this chap was the only buyer then you still sold it at the best price !
If you genuinely had a few buyers and sold it considerably cheaper to somebody because they gave you a convincing sob story and you were kind then they are a shitty person but ultimately if their funds cleared and they didn't give you forged cash then you did a deal and shouldn't be "looking over the fence " as they say in the car dealing business.
A few hundred quid or less by the time he has managed to sell is neither here nor there....dinner for 4 in crappy old Pizza Express is going to cost you £85 these days .

For me, the issue is about transparency - in my case, I did have other people interested, but the chap seemed to be an enthusiast. I did ask if he was a dealer, but only out of interest, as I'd clocked his name before, selling some great guitars that were right up my street. The guitar had been on sale for a day and I thought he was jumping at the chance to buy this particular model for himself. I knew it was a bloody good price, but I didn't mind, as I thought it was going to a good home, When it comes to it, it doesn't really matter I suppose, and if someone wants to do that for the sake of a couple of hundred quid or so, it's not going to stop my world from turning. I have no problem with people making a profit in general though - I should emphasise that.

Ok i'm going to wade in here as im pretty sure it was me as i have seen the guitars you put on here which i also played round your house!

Yes i offered you a cash price privately which you accepted straight away and yes i bought it for my own use and not to sell when i got it home and played through my amp it did not sound too great compared to my keepers so i decided to punt it on 5 days later and i did not receive any messages from you asking why i had put of for sale as i would have told you i had the hots for another gretsch i had seen!

Did i drive 250 miles to come get it that day with cold hard cash yes, i spent some time round yours and we had a great chat about gear and i put it on the bay factoring ebay fees paypal fees and shipping costs etc, i certainly did not make £350 like you are making out i think it was more £60 after everything.

I think a few people on here will attest that i am certainly not a dealer and an absolute gear head who loses more money on gear than anyone on this forum,

I am the idiot that goes and buys nearly everything new from a shop then passes on the savings to fellow fretboarders on here!

A few points to note first though , You dont post which is fine and you dont take paypal which is fine, that limits it selling massively ,however i dont want to sit on gear for months on end if its not my thing ,im prepared to take the risk on ebay for a quick turnaround risking the usual paypal hurdles, buyers remorse,not as described because they have changed their mind and guitar getting damaged or lost ,

im not a flipper/trader like some guys out there and i have sold to a few over the years, if i get what i want then im not fussed if dealers like Ric henry or Craig greenwood puts it up for a grand more than i got, which has happened a few times fair play to them if they get it, they have the exposure and stores and the contacts

If you no longer want to sell me a guitar in future especially that es295 then thats a shame you seemed a good guy!

Peace out

Lee

Philly_Q · September 2018

leerocker said:
I think a few people on here will attest that i am certainly not a dealer and an absolute gear head who loses more money on gear than anyone on this forum

Ooh, I dunno, I've managed to lose quite a bit over the years....

leerocker · September 2018

Philly_Q said:

leerocker said:
I think a few people on here will attest that i am certainly not a dealer and an absolute gear head who loses more money on gear than anyone on this forum

Ooh, I dunno, I've managed to lose quite a bit over the years....

i worked out i have lost about 4 grand already this year!

Philly_Q · September 2018

leerocker said:

Philly_Q said:

leerocker said:
I think a few people on here will attest that i am certainly not a dealer and an absolute gear head who loses more money on gear than anyone on this forum

Ooh, I dunno, I've managed to lose quite a bit over the years....

i worked out i have lost about 4 grand already this year!

I must concede you're well ahead of me on current form, then!

It's been a few years since I've sold anything.

DB1 · September 2018

Cheers Lee - yes, I wasn't going to name name, but yes, you're right - I wanted to keep it more general rather than personal - and I take your point of the story in part. Without going too deeply into it though, I was surprised to see it go back up on the Bank Holiday Monday, two days after I'd sold it to you, not five. It doesn't matter to me whether you're a part-time dealer or not, and I don't mind anyone making a profit, but you can imagine that when I saw it go back up for sale two days later, for £350 more and just before the eBay £1 commission offer ended, that I was surprised.

I sent a text, to see if there was a problem (and if you say that you didn't receive it, then I fully accept that) - the fact that it was on sale at £350 more was actually pointed out to me by the guy that came to buy the ES-150, and fell in love with the ES-295 (which I still have, because it's - as you pointed out - a good one!). When I didn't receive a reply, you can understand that I felt it may have been flipped, and you will also remember me asking if you were a dealer, out of interest rather than anything else, as I'd seen some great guitars advertised by you.

I absolutely agree that I was fine with the offer (I don't think that I've stated differently in fairness) and - given your musical tastes - was pleased that it was going to a good home. Kenny liked you, as well, and he's a good judge of character, although (in absolute honesty) anyone that will give him a biscuit is OK!

I hope you'll appreciate my reasoning behind my assumptions, given the above, and that I didn't want to name names (or even make of guitar, as that might have narrowed it down!) - I also thought that you were sound, as mentioned above, so was disappointed at the above.

I'm sure you'll understand my reasoning - particularly as the resale hit the cut-off for the £1 offer on eBay fees - for feeling that 'sour taste', because we got on well, and I thought I'd sold it to someone that wanted it. I fully accept that you did, though, as you've just said that you did. Anyway, you didn't have a coffee, so it could have been worse. ;-)

I do try and be a good guy, and wouldn't want to do anyone an injustice, so perhaps we can do a virtual handshake and feel free to buy anything else! :-)

Not the ES-295 though.....

Fiftyshadesofjay · September 2018

If someone buys a guitar, they can do what they like with it.

digitalscream · September 2018

Well, that was an interesting twist.

'spose I ought to keep an eye on this one too...if only because it challenges assumptions and I'm curious as to the community's feeling on the subject from here on out...

DB1 · September 2018

Fiftyshadesofjay said:

If someone buys a guitar, they can do what they like with it.

That's undisputed - there's nothing to stop anyone doing what they like with it. But - and this is a general comment, and in no way relating to my conversation with Lee above - it depends on what basis you've sold it, whether it's been sold in good faith or the circumstances been have been misrepresented. As you rightly say, they can do what they want with it, but you don't have to feel good about having your leg lifted, and I stress again that it's a general comment, rather than just applying to guitars.

Of course, it applies (perhaps even more so) to the seller as well. In an ideal world, everyone would just tell it like it is, but it isn't an ideal world, so perhaps some of us (including me) just need to grow a thicker skin. Ah, sod it, I'll still get the coffee on and give you biscuits to feed my dog. :-)

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