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The entertainment continues over at TGP:
"Ironically that's the emptiest point ever, repeated ad nauseam through the thread by people like you who are basically all spouting the same things over and over again."
and
"Do you always talk to people this way?
Its cute that your inflated self-importance can sit you so high above everyone.
Do they all look like ants from that high horse?"
It tells me what I need to know about the establishment. I wouldn't return to a restaurant that served me a burger from the McDonalds up the street because I'd only have the salmon this time. That's just odd.
My feedback thread is here.
Even if you accept that Andertons didn't know about Vertex (which frankly I refuse to believe---it's just too improbable) how the hell Lee Anderton can say that he's happy to give Mason another chance after Mason has just very publically told him fib after fib after fib straight to his face is quite something. I don't get it.
I guess this is my point, Lee is obviously successful and canny in many ways - but saying 'sorry I messed up, I'll change direction' doesn't always seem to come easy
They're trying to sell it, they won't say it's bad even if it is.
I suspect that once the existing stock of Vertex pedals has been sold they wont get any more in, and it wouldn't surprise me if in a few months time, when all the heat has died down, that particular video will quietly be taken down.
To do that now will mean that Lee will appear to have been bullied into it, and he doesn't strike me as someone who lets himself be bullied.
Of course that will not please the bullies because they want to be seen as "winning". But in the end, it is probably the right way to fix this in that the chap will not have a long term future with Anderton's and he won't be able to rely on that video for advertising, but by the same token the Internet commentators will not have what they want, which is for Anderton's to stop showing it now and to publicly condemn this man.
I reckon you won't see the video on Anderton's official channel within the year, nor will you be able to buy a Vertex pedal after they have been offloaded. In five years time nobody will (a) remember or (b) care that for a very brief time Anderton's carried this pedal and had a video about them on YouTube.
I have no axe to grind in this matter. I rarely buy pedals and even then they are usually cheaper ones. I do wonder why this man hasn't been prosecuted or sued, especially in a society as litigious as the United States. I would never spend more than £50 on a single effect pedal, and I confess to being genuinely puzzled why anyone would do so, but it's a free country and people can buy what they like. I have to admit to laughing out loud when someone posted that one of the things this man is alleged to have done is to take a cheap pedal, pull the original makers name off, put his own on, and sell it for a huge markup. Where is the crime? The original maker got their money in full, and the buyer of the "fake" pedal got what they wanted - a pedal that cost hundreds of dollars. They must have liked what they heard otherwise why buy the pedal? But I fail to see what the crime is in this particular case, unless it is exposing the myth that some people think they have golden ears and can hear what us mere mortals cannot. They appear to have never heard the fable of the Emperor's New Clothes. I can see why some would want that to be considered a crime but it really isn't.
Of course some of the other stuff he is said to have done is not as amusing and again I wonder why he hasn't been brought before the courts.
"Bullied by Internet commentators" - Lee isn't being bullied. You spend much of this post talking of Internet commentators in derogatory terms whilst a man who admitted to fraud in the past and who repeats a very specific lie.
Misrepresentation of a product could well be considered fraud. If you've seen the raft of changes that Mason made to the Vertex product descriptions, then you'll know how the tweaks worked to keep him just on the right side of the law whilst sending out C&D letters to people who reported the truth accurately regarding the pedals.
I would liken the situation to a footballer who dives. It isn't a crime but it is against the spirit of the game and so the barracking that player receives from fans is deserved.
As my Dad would say, “get a grip...”
I am not defending him by any means, I would not buy something from him and would caution people against doing so.
But I disagree that people are not trying to bully Anderton's. I think they are. I think they want to prevent Anderton's selling his products and they are threatening boycotts if they don't. Of course people can choose what to spend their money on, and what principles to employ when doing so, but attacking a business - which bear in mind operates within UK law and anyone buying one of these pedals from Andertons has the whole of UK consumer protection legislation to protect them - who had nothing to do with his past business dealings, and who genuinely believe what he is selling right now is a good product, well that doesn't sit right with me.
As I say, I am coming to this only having read this thread and a few of the TGP pages. I suppose it is this guys misfortune to be trying to start a company in this day and age when communications are so global. Years ago people set up businesses that failed and failed and failed, and yes, perhaps engaging in some unethical business practices to boot, before getting one right and becoming successful. Can't do that these days. Even if you don't break any laws, you have to be held to the Internet's ethical standards, which means being perfect in every regard.
But I wonder how many people we actually revere as successful business owners ŵould have been able to do so in this day and age. Do we know anything about Marks, or Spencer, or CF Martin's, or Leo Fender's, or Stradivarius', or Goldman or Sachs early business ventures before they got it right? Did they never engage in any practices that would get them hounded out of business in todays Internet-centred world? We'll never know because they had the good luck to exist when they did.
Anyway, this chap is going to be forced out of business it seems, and will probably end up on the US version of benefits, being unable to get a job because of his reputation. A cursory search by anyone thinking of offering a job in any capacity will turn up enough to surely make them think twice.
Maybe he will screw up again. Maybe he won't. He won't be getting rich out of me, that's for certain, but I just can't bring myself to condemn him outright when what he has done, in any other age, would probably simply be classed as gaining experience on the way to running a successful company, providing products people want and employing people. Not when the products he is selling today are through a reputable company like Anderton's.
I don't know. You don't get the standard of conmen these days that you used to get. It used to be the case that a film crew from That's Life would doorstep you, forcing you to flee to the Costa del Sol. Nowadays you get to make a video on YouTube.
Whilst I don't agree with Andertons promoting the guy, it wouldn't stop me using Andertons.
Nestle have done far worse than any pedal shark yet I still shop at supermarkets that stock and promote their products. I just tend to avoid the products, when I remember. Personally I think there would be an ethical contradiction, boycotting a music shop over something like this without improvement of my overall principles and standards in other areas. An easy choice to make, not using a music shop, but so is not using Tesco or Amazon.
One day I will raise my standards, in all areas, all at once;)
i think the vertex guy through his past actions has been shown in a true light and he has to accept that people don’t have to forgive and forget.
i think Andertons have been at best naive but I think if lee wants to give a 2nd chance so be it. But not with my money.
For it to have been passing off he would have had to replace the label with one from a company that hadn't given him permission to do so.
The laws around passing off are designed to protect consumers from buying a product that is not that on the label, and also at the same time, to protect the reputation of the company who's label had been put on.
For example if I buy a Tesco Value Pork Pie and label it as a Marks and Spencer Premium Pork Pie, I am passing off an inferior pork pie off as a superor pork pie, and using Marks and Spencer's reputation to help me sell it.
But if I labelled a Tesco Value pork pie and labelled it as Deano's Lovely pork pie, then no reputation has been damaged and consumers have not been fooled into thinking they are buying a M&S pie.
It is the same with buying a BBE pedal and relabelling it as a Vertex pedal before selling it for a huge amount of money. No reputation has suffered and no reputation has been used to sell the product except Vertex's such as it is. Therefore it is not passing off. It might be embarrassing, or sharp-practice, or funny depending on how you feel about it, but it is not passing off.
Just wanted to clarify that because accusing someone of passing off without proof is not a good idea legally.