Time for a boycott of Japanese products?

WiresDreamDisasters · December 2018

ICBM said:

WiresDreamDisasters said:

Norway has been commercially whaling since 1994 and Iceland restarted their commercial whaling efforts in 2006.

I was under the - obviously mistaken - impression that Norway and Iceland weren't doing it commercially, but exploiting the same loophole as Japan. Ah well - probably a good thing that I've bought nothing from either of them then...

WiresDreamDisasters said:

If you disagree with whale-hunting on pure principle, that's one thing.

I do, as do a very large number of other people.

WiresDreamDisasters said:

Is there common ground? I don't know. But it's completely within Japan's right as a sovereign nation state to pull out of an international group and set of agreements in order to be able to fish it's own national territory. Which is what they're going to be doing.

Will they not be whaling in international waters then? I find that hard to believe.

WiresDreamDisasters said:

So when we move on from doing all the wrong things, what do we eat?

That is a good, and difficult, question - but the answer has to be less meat of all kinds. And we should probably start by stopping eating the most intelligent, and possibly endangered, wild species.

I basically don't agree with you at all on this, but I promised myself I wouldn't get dragged into the off-topic thing when I came back. A momentary relapse, but one I will correct now.

crunchman · December 2018

What Japan is doing is not good, but as said above, it's not nearly as bad as what the Chinese are doing to the Uighurs. I don't see lots of calls to boycott iPhones, and other Chinese made products.

Given their human rights record, we should see a lot of calls to boycott Saudi oil. Don't recall seeing any.

Drew is right in some ways. If we are willing to eat bacon and steak then in some ways we can't really condemn too loudly. If you could kill both humanely, then there wouldn't really be any difference between a pig and a whale. The problem is that, as far as I know, the whales can't be killed humanely. They are too big to die instantly and will suffer.

Personally I don't think we should be killing them, but there are more important issues.

There is also the hypocrisy. There are probably a lot more whales (and other animals) suffering and dying as a result plastic pollution from all the countries that are loudly condemning Japan.

Bellycaster · December 2018

Bygone_Tones said:

Whales are animals. Animals are food. Food feeds people and is part of culture. We don't eat children. Children are not food.

Human beings are animals too. We did eat each other in the past, and there are still some tribes that practise cannibalism.

I know some places where people eat each other

Danny1969 · December 2018

Japan is about twice the size of us with twice the population but probably exports about 20 times the amount of manufactured
goods we do so I'm unsure why they need to go kill whales ?

It's just one more thing though in an ever growing list of things that will bring our doom eventually. Long term with the ever growing population, global warming, extinction of half the jungle and rain forest species plus what ever lives on both polar caps, ocean filled with plastic etc I doubt there will be much to celebrate in the year 3000

Foster · December 2018

I vote we allow whale hunting but only to people who currently fox hunt in the uk

same rules apply, you must hunt on horseback whilst in full clobber. Boats are unsportsmanship.

Emp_Fab · December 2018

Boycotting Japanese products did actually occur to me when I heard the news, but realistically, what is there on the shelves that is made in Japan?

Let’s hope China doesn’t take up whaling because that would be 95% of Asda, Tesco, Aldi, Lidl, etc etc

Octafish · December 2018

crunchman said:

What Japan is doing is not good, but as said above, it's not nearly as bad as what the Chinese are doing to the Uighurs. I don't see lots of calls to boycott iPhones, and other Chinese made products.

Given their human rights record, we should see a lot of calls to boycott Saudi oil. Don't recall seeing any.

Drew is right in some ways. If we are willing to eat bacon and steak then in some ways we can't really condemn too loudly. If you could kill both humanely, then there wouldn't really be any difference between a pig and a whale. The problem is that, as far as I know, the whales can't be killed humanely. They are too big to die instantly and will suffer.

Personally I don't think we should be killing them, but there are more important issues.

There is also the hypocrisy. There are probably a lot more whales (and other animals) suffering and dying as a result plastic pollution from all the countries that are loudly condemning Japan.

I think that's bang on. Whilst in principle I don't agree with Japan returning to whaling, getting all upset and boycotting Japan over some whale slaughter whilst unquestionably consuming products from countries such as China is rather incoherent and (although I hate to use the term) all a bit virtue signally.

Emp_Fab · December 2018

Yeah, but, doing something incoherently is still better than doing nothing coherently.

Bellycaster · December 2018

I wouldn't eat Veal or Whale, but I still think Derek and Clive are bloody hilarious.

.

Sleepyscholar · December 2018

This thread is asking me to do rather more than the rest of you, since I live in Japan, and boycotting Japanese products would have a serious effect on my lifestyle (not to mention the fact that switching to all-import would drastically worsen my impact on the environment).

The sad thing here is that most Japanese people have no interest in whaling. A few may have eaten whale at some point or other -- as a curiosity -- but it's a long way from being any part of the staple diet. Japanese whaling is kept up by the same little bunch of right-wingers who insist on doctoring the history textbooks. Maybe this explains why whalemeat is part of the rations issued to the 'SDF' (ie the Japanese army). Sadly, these right-wingers have a disproportionate level of political influence. And as with the comfort women issue, they can point at the huge levels of humbug, hypocrisy and misrepresentation offered by the opposition. This makes it easier for them to defend what is, I agree, a pretty despicable practice.

But on a world scale, I agree that plastic is more of a problem. Not to mention the consumption of meat, generally (and I am not a vegetarian).

57Deluxe · December 2018

luckily everything I used to buy from Japan is now made in China...

ToneControl · December 2018

Are whales cuter than sheep? Or more intelligent than pigs?

Anyway, we buy plenty of stuff from countries that eat dogs, and they are more loved by humans, and are of similar intelligence
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cetacean_intelligence ;

Time to give up your tech gadgets:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/article/39577557/the-countries-where-people-still-eat-cats-and-dogs-for-dinner

ThePrettyDamned · December 2018

WiresDreamDisasters said:

menamestom said:

I think the fishing industry full stop is pretty destructive to the oceans so so find it hard to be morally outraged by whalling in isolation.
Also the amount of plastic shit we discard that ends up in the sea, personally I think we should either take the lead in global standards or realise taking the moral high ground doesn’t really work.

If were talking boycotting things start with non farmed or non hand caught fish

When it comes to plastic in the sea, we do take the lead in global standards. I looked into this a while back. Basically from what I remember, China, Indonesia, Philippines, Thailand, and Vietnam are dumping more plastic into the oceans.

And they're doing it more than the rest of the world combined.

And it's primarily down to the lack of local collection and sorting facilities and no cultural appreciation for refuse collection. Seriously.

This is true - however, from my experience at work I'd say that China is getting more and more engaged in global waste and green energy markets. That's not to say they're there yet (I don't think anywhere truly is) but they are advancing technology and, to some extent, culture, towards this goal.

There is a long way to go. With regards to whaling, they will become more endangered - shareholders will *like* this. The bluefin tuna industry is the same - there are warehouses full of frozen bluefin waiting for them to become even more critically endangered in order to realise an investment.

Not good. But I don't think we can hold a moral glow stick - we just need to engage, globally, on the issues at hand. Maintenance is hard work.

heavyrocker · December 2018

crunchman said:

If you could kill both humanely, then there wouldn't really be any difference between a pig and a whale. The problem is that, as far as I know, the whales can't be killed humanely. They are too big to die instantly and will suffer.

I’ve never understood this argument as a way of justifying killing something. Humans can be killed humanely - does that mean it’s okay to kill them too?

The reason it’s wrong to kill a whale is because they are highly intelligent, sophisticated animals. By killing a whale you’ve denied it the life it would have gone on to live. It could also be a mother, so there could also be other unintended consequences in killing it. Pigs are also intelligent animals, at least as intelligent as dogs. Would you be okay with killing dogs humanely?

The idea that humans are somehow distinct from other animals so that makes it okay to kill animals but not humans is complete nonesense. We just happen to be the most intelligent species on the planet (allegedly). That might give us more responsibility but it doesn’t give us any more right to be here per se or to use animals for our own means.

When we needed to eat animals just to survive that’s one thing but now we eat animals to get fat and ultimately it’s making us ill, it’s unsustainable and it is destroying the planet and contributing to climate change. If the human species wants to survive we will have to stop eating meat, at least at the unsustainable level we do now.

Merry Christmas everyone!

ThePrettyDamned · December 2018

heavyrocker said:

crunchman said:

If you could kill both humanely, then there wouldn't really be any difference between a pig and a whale. The problem is that, as far as I know, the whales can't be killed humanely. They are too big to die instantly and will suffer.

I’ve never understood this argument as a way of justifying killing something. Humans can be killed humanely - does that mean it’s okay to kill them too?

The reason it’s wrong to kill a whale is because they are highly intelligent, sophisticated animals. By killing a whale you’ve denied it the life it would have gone on to live. It could also be a mother, so there could also be other unintended consequences in killing it. Pigs are also intelligent animals, at least as intelligent as dogs. Would you be okay with killing dogs humanely?

The idea that humans are somehow distinct from other animals so that makes it okay to kill animals but not humans is complete nonesense. We just happen to be the most intelligent species on the planet (allegedly). That might give us more responsibility but it doesn’t give us any more right to be here per se or to use animals for our own means.

When we needed to eat animals just to survive that’s one thing but now we eat animals to get fat and ultimately it’s making us ill, it’s unsustainable and it is destroying the planet and contributing to climate change. If the human species wants to survive we will have to stop eating meat, at least at the unsustainable level we do now.

Merry Christmas everyone!

The flip side is the sudden trend in veganism has led to deforestation for soy plantations leading to mass flooding, and perpetual drought in california to grow almonds.

We just can't get it right.

Blueingreen · December 2018

57Deluxe said:

luckily everything I used to buy from Japan is now made in China...

China is detaining hundreds of thousands of its own people from religious minorities, mainly Muslims, in what are effectively concentration camps. Estimates vary between 800,000 and 2M. They are being “re-educated” using methods including psychological and physical torture. The main motivation for this appears to be that Muslims are predominant in parts of China that are rich in natural resources and the Han majority want to get their hands on these.

But I’m not aware of the Chinese being nasty to whales, so I guess we can let that one pass.

Hattigol · December 2018

heavyrocker said:

crunchman said:

If you could kill both humanely, then there wouldn't really be any difference between a pig and a whale. The problem is that, as far as I know, the whales can't be killed humanely. They are too big to die instantly and will suffer.

I’ve never understood this argument as a way of justifying killing something. Humans can be killed humanely - does that mean it’s okay to kill them too?

The reason it’s wrong to kill a whale is because they are highly intelligent, sophisticated animals. By killing a whale you’ve denied it the life it would have gone on to live. It could also be a mother, so there could also be other unintended consequences in killing it. Pigs are also intelligent animals, at least as intelligent as dogs. Would you be okay with killing dogs humanely?

The idea that humans are somehow distinct from other animals so that makes it okay to kill animals but not humans is complete nonesense. We just happen to be the most intelligent species on the planet (allegedly). That might give us more responsibility but it doesn’t give us any more right to be here per se or to use animals for our own means.

When we needed to eat animals just to survive that’s one thing but now we eat animals to get fat and ultimately it’s making us ill, it’s unsustainable and it is destroying the planet and contributing to climate change. If the human species wants to survive we will have to stop eating meat, at least at the unsustainable level we do now.

Merry Christmas everyone!

Yeah but come on.....how far are you taking this? Surely you wouldn't want people to give up like turkey or pigs in blankets? It's Christmas ffs...

bbill335 · December 2018

They could kill every single whale and I'd still be nuts for Smash Bros Ultimate

darthed1981 · December 2018

It's quite likely within 20 years you will be able to have a believable facsimile of turkey or pigs-in-blankets without rearing any animals, artificial protein technologies are proceeding in leaps and bounds.

We are standing at a crossroads and this year has both shown the start of more serious consequences we can all see of global climate change, and at the same time large parts of the world shying away from doing anything about it because of the cost. This is alongside Brexit and the new Cold War.

We live in interesting times.

Grunfeld · December 2018

Bellycaster said:

I wouldn't eat Veal or Whale, but I still think Derek and Clive are bloody hilarious.

That's funny. Not heard it in years. Thanks for posting it.

"whales unite

whales will fight

whales will go on eating plankton

whales are nice

full of spice

and we don't like being wanked on!"

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Time for a boycott of Japanese products?

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