Were Dokken or Ratt ever big in the UK ?

SidNewton · April 2014

daveyh said:

SidNewton said:

That style of music died with the arrival of grunge, there's no disputing that. It ceased to be relevant at that time and remains so. If it were then it would be selling in large numbers and influencing the next generation of bands. It isn't and won't so is therefore irrelevant. Doesn't mean you shouldn't listen to it if that's your thing.

Sorry, but that's not at all true, your just displaying your own prejudice on this one. Grunge as movement was pretty limited in it's duration, as all musical trends are. If you want to see the influence in the next generation of bands look at what's going on in Scandinavia, or look at bands like Black Veil Brides or Falling in Reverse, or bands like Knock Out Kaine from the UK.

If all musical trends are limited in their duration then so was the hair metal thing which makes the Scandinavian bands you mentioned ...........irrelevant.

daveyh · April 2014

SidNewton said:

daveyh said:

SidNewton said:

That style of music died with the arrival of grunge, there's no disputing that. It ceased to be relevant at that time and remains so. If it were then it would be selling in large numbers and influencing the next generation of bands. It isn't and won't so is therefore irrelevant. Doesn't mean you shouldn't listen to it if that's your thing.

Sorry, but that's not at all true, your just displaying your own prejudice on this one. Grunge as movement was pretty limited in it's duration, as all musical trends are. If you want to see the influence in the next generation of bands look at what's going on in Scandinavia, or look at bands like Black Veil Brides or Falling in Reverse, or bands like Knock Out Kaine from the UK.

If all musical trends are limited in their duration then so was the hair metal thing which makes the Scandinavian bands you mentioned ...........irrelevant.

So this is about your prejudice to something you don't like? LOL

SidNewton · April 2014

daveyh said:

SidNewton said:

daveyh said:

SidNewton said:

That style of music died with the arrival of grunge, there's no disputing that. It ceased to be relevant at that time and remains so. If it were then it would be selling in large numbers and influencing the next generation of bands. It isn't and won't so is therefore irrelevant. Doesn't mean you shouldn't listen to it if that's your thing.

Sorry, but that's not at all true, your just displaying your own prejudice on this one. Grunge as movement was pretty limited in it's duration, as all musical trends are. If you want to see the influence in the next generation of bands look at what's going on in Scandinavia, or look at bands like Black Veil Brides or Falling in Reverse, or bands like Knock Out Kaine from the UK.

If all musical trends are limited in their duration then so was the hair metal thing which makes the Scandinavian bands you mentioned ...........irrelevant.

So this is about your prejudice to something you don't like? LOL

Why does that bother you? Why are you trying to dress it up as prejudice when it's nothing of the sort? It's a simple matter of taste, pure and simple. I couldn't care less whether anyone likes the same stuff as me and it certainly doesn't bother me in the slightest if they don't. I'm not going to agree with you as long a you have an hole in your arse so we'll just have to agree to disagree.

daveyh · April 2014

Kerpunk said:

I agree with Sid. The world wouldn't be much different musically if hair metal never existed the same can't be said for punk or original rock n roll for example.

The thing that people don't grasp about 'hair metal' is that it wasn't a musical thing specifically, it was a visual thing and it grew because if MTV. That music at the time did change things, perhaps in ways outside of the purely musical. There are a lot of mid league hair bands from the '80s who are still releasing albums, touring and making money from it whereas finding similar level grunge bands from the time is much harder task.

Those bands you mention arn't gonna inspire people like The Rolling Stones, The Clash or Nirvana did are they no matter how good they are.

The vast, vast majority of bands no matter how big they are won't inspire people like to that extent though.

daveyh · April 2014

SidNewton said:

Why does that bother you?

It doesn't tbh, I really couldn't care less what you think but if you're going to make definitive statements based on nothing more than your own opinion then don't be surprised if someone doesn't agree.

And what's really important when it comes down to it is we always had the best looking women.

FelineGuitars · April 2014

The whole 80s rock thing inspired so many bands - either a little or a lot

Many hard rock bands of now owe more that just a little to all these bands, and the stones, Beatles, Zepp and Sabbath etc etc

I did smile when I saw this on the box a while back - kind of made me think of Van Halen's Hot For Teacher

Basher · April 2014

I saw Ratt once. They were terrible.

They were the support act on an Ozzy Osbourne tour. He was also terrible.

My main memory of the night was some less than impressed Geordie throwing a disposable, plastic cup (venue rules) at the singer in between songs. The singer wasn't impressed and said something like "do that again and I'll kill you" accompanied by his best LA sneer. Cue about 20 more plastic cups bouncing off his poodle perm and a quick launch into the next tune.

SidNewton · April 2014

daveyh said:

And what's really important when it comes down to it is we always had the best looking women.

Well, I won't argue with that. What am I going to come back with? Courtney Love?
>:D<

Jeztone · April 2014

I find it interesting that people talk about relevance. One of the things I find interesting about hard rock/metal music is that it's seen as a celebration of blue collar people. So yer British Music Press who are largely middle class sneer at it.

Alan Yentobs documentary on the electric guitar was very much like that. Hard Rock/ Metal guitarists were pretty much ignored, but the likes of Van Halen/Vai et al have contributed far more to modern guitar design than Graham Coxon.

Lodious · April 2014

While stylistically Dokken and Ratt may be similar, to me they are polar opposites of Van Halen and Vai. In their prime, both Van Halen and Vai were ground braking, inventive, humorous, kick ass rock guitarists who massively pushed the envelope. Dokken and Ratt were conservative, derivative, totally humourless, overproduced, pompous pop bands.

IMHO none of the elements which make a good rock and rock band were present in Dokken or Ratt. There is no danger, no sense the synergy of players within a band, no songs, no energy, no progression between albums.

They are closer to the Backstreet Boys or Rihanna than to Van Halen. I'm not trying to toll when I say that, I really believe it. I like George Lynch, and Zappa rated Warren Di Martini, so I'm sure he's very talented, but these were good guitarists in abysmal bands.

I was delighted when the Chili Peppers, Nirvana etc swept this shit away and we got rock and roll back from the bad guys.

I'm not sure if 'irrelevance' has anything to do with it, but to me, they were the lowest point rock has ever seen, thank fuck them and their white baseball boots, frost wash jeans and poodle hair have disappeared.

gilby · April 2014

I miss my white baseball boots : (

Lodious · April 2014

haha, me too :-)

mellowsun · April 2014

Lodious said:

Dokken and Ratt were conservative, derivative, totally humourless, overproduced, pompous pop bands.

I agree with some of this, but this was what much of the 80s was about - melodic, often pap and throwaway, but always ready to party.

Music since then, with a few exceptions, has lost a lot of that I think.

Dave_Mc · April 2014

Jalapeno said:

Dave_Mc said:

Kerpunk said:

Dave_Mc said:

Kerpunk said:

There was a guy on the music radar forums who mentioned RATT in every other post.

Are you sure that wasn't me?

I think your better placed to answer that than me :P

I dunno, I might not be real >:D<

Best bit of that saga was that Bradders got the Admins to replace 'RATT' with 'Unspeakably bad music' every time somebody tried to mention them

Pity he didn't get them to replace references to his own gear reviews on the old Guitarist CD with that...

Dave_Mc · April 2014

daveyh said:

SidNewton said:

Why does that bother you?

It doesn't tbh, I really couldn't care less what you think but if you're going to make definitive statements based on nothing more than your own opinion then don't be surprised if someone doesn't agree.

+1

Don't like what you don't like, I couldn't care less, but don't try to paint it as anything more highfalutin than "I just don't like that" (and also don't try to speak for everyone). I mean guitar hero is one of the most popular computer games of all time, for example (granted not all the songs are hair metal but a lot are), and computer games are arguably more culturally relevant than 90s grunge, for example. Plus i'd wager if you walk into your average high school and mention hendrix (i love hendrix, FWIW) I doubt most would have heard of him. If you're going to play the "culturally relevant" game I'd say most guitar music probably fails that test now, unfortunately.

FelineGuitars · April 2014

Also it becomes a fashion thing:

If you got turned onto music in the early 90s then Thrash,Grunge or later Nu-metal or Britpop was your thing and it was the done thing to hate and sneer at the 80s scene. Then the whole Manchester and Welsh rock scenes too.

It was the same in the 70s when punk and new wave came along and killed off Prog Rock and all that "heavy rock stuff with its long hair and boring solos".

It's fashion and feeling like part of a club and to an extent defining yourself by hating what is the opposite of what you are into.

I fell into that trap myself for a while at the time disliking grunge bands like Nirvana and Pearl Jam as they seemed to be diametrically opposed to the bands I liked. Thankfully common sense kicked in after a few years and I came to see the brilliance of those two bands material whilst still liking the best of what I loved all those years.

For myself my core tastes haven't really shifted far at all over the decades although my tastes may have broadened.

In the 70s I liked a lot of music (I was only a kid) but loved what was called glam rock - Sweet , Slade, Bowie, T Rex, Queen, Alice Cooper, Kiss etc as well as hard rock like Deep Purple, Black Sabbath, UFO, Thin Lizzy, Argent etc

Into the early 80s I added Motley Crue, Ratt, Dokken, Van Halen, WASP, Black and Blue, King Kobra, Cinderella, Bon Jovi, Great White, Y&T, as well as Whitesnake, MSG, Scorpions, Iron Maiden,Judas Priest, Ozzy Osbourne, Queensryche Accept etc.

These days I revel in having bands like Steel Panther still flying the flag whilst still enjoying a lot of other crrent bands as long as they can carry a tune.(Halestorm are a current fave)

What has always been important to me is good songs and great guitar riffs and there was no shortage of them back then.

The early 80s bands felt different to the ones that came along a bit later - by which time too many bands pandered to MTV and the record labels lost a degree of quality control and signed anything in leather wearing eyeliner.

In a way though it was no different to the record labels signing every band in South Wales in the late 1990s after the success of the Manic Street Preachers - lazy A&R men looking for a trend to latch onto.

matone · April 2014

Who ?

cruxiform · April 2014

Kerpunk said:

There was a guy on the music radar forums who mentioned RATT in every other post.

Was that the fella from the band Rough Justice? He was always talking about RATT on the old Guitarist forum.

Jeztone · April 2014

Wise words Mr Feline.

Dave_Mc · April 2014

^ Agreed.

It's also worth noting that a lot of the elder statesmen nowadays were considered terminally uncool not that long ago. I remember not that long ago (talking the mid 90s) that the beatles and the stones and bands like that were considered to be old fashioned and, er, "culturally irrelevant". Stuff gets really uncool and then comes back into fashion again a a result- hair metal might do the same (and in fact arguably is, since solos were forbidden around the turn of the millenium, they've been gradually coming back I think and there are even some signed modern hair metal bands who get played on scuzz and kerrang these days).

Look how recently the fashion world was confidently saying, "Those 80s fashions will never come back, they're just too uncool". Yeah, they came back. If leggings and shoulderpads can come back, I dare say almost anything can.

I also think downloads help with giving people a wider variety of music, I remember when I was young before they existed people only really liked what was currently popular and in the charts, and that doesn't seem to be the case so much any more.

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Were Dokken or Ratt ever big in the UK ?

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