Best passive attenuator?

John_A · June 2019

fretmeister said:

A Pignose does not sound like a Marshall!

The newest generation modellers don't suffer from "all the same" anymore.

I've got a Helix and my guitars sound very different through it. More impressive is that basses sound very different through it too.

Agree with that - Modelling has come a long way

Also agree if you want a Marshall sound, and have a Marshall amp then it would be a silly thing not to use it

Thomann do a copy of the Jet city attenuator for peanuts, might be worth a try

https://www.thomann.de/gb/bugera_power_soak_ps1.htm

Still say wait for a powerbrake though (buy cheap buy twice

)

fretmeister · June 2019

I've set up an ebay search for the Power Brake.
Hopefully one will come up at a sensible price.

I've also tweeted to Marshall to ask if they are ever going to bring it back, maybe with an IR loader?

rze99 · June 2019

I've used THD Hot Plates for decades with all my vintage and vintage style amps - Vox, Fender, Marshall, Tweed stye - and while it is not a flexible solution being Ohm dependent, it is most certainly not "crap" with any of the amps. I haven't trie the others because I haven't needed to.

fretmeister · June 2019

I've had 2 Hotplates. With Fender and Mesa amps.
Wasn't impressed with either.

BluesyDave · June 2019

Thought this might be of interest...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ANFiuuY55Wk

fretmeister · June 2019

Ooo thanks!

hywelg · June 2019

fretmeister said:

I've had 2 Hotplates. With Fender and Mesa amps.
Wasn't impressed with either.

I've used my 16ohm Hotplate with Fender Super Amp, Dr Z EZG, Ceriatone OTS, Carr Rambler and it works well down to -8dB. It didn't work well with my Marshall 1987 or my Ceriatone DZ30 .

Rocker · June 2019

@fretmeister, I was unaware that you have a Helix, so why not use that?

fretmeister · June 2019

Rocker said:

@fretmeister, I was unaware that you have a Helix, so why not use that?

Why do people have more than 1 guitar?
Because they like variety.

Sometimes a different bit of kit can be inspiring.

steven70 · June 2019

Can I ask, why attenuator a) might be good with amp x) but not good with amp y) , while attenuator b) might work better?

Assuming they are both passive.

I thought an attenuator was basically a bag of resistors...so what would cause them to behave differently with different amps?
Is that more to do with other circuitry e.g. 'bright' and 'warm' switches- or is there more...

Reason I ask is because I have the Rockcrusher and really not that impressed- I use it as it's what I have - but..wondering whether to try another make. Be interesting to try and understand.

Thanks

ICBM · June 2019

steven70 said:

Can I ask, why attenuator a) might be good with amp x) but not good with amp y) , while attenuator b) might work better?

Assuming they are both passive.

I thought an attenuator was basically a bag of resistors...so what would cause them to behave differently with different amps?
Is that more to do with other circuitry e.g. 'bright' and 'warm' switches- or is there more...

Basically the problem is that a speaker is not a plain resistance, it's a reactive load that has a large inductance as well, which means that its impedance changes with frequency - the interaction between this and the amp significantly alters the tone and dynamic response of the amp. So you would think that the solution is to make the load reactive in the same way... but it's not that simple, since the speaker's reactance is not only non-linear, it also changes with how hard it's being driven, because a speaker is an electro-mechanical system not purely electrical.

To make it even more complex, some amps seem to be more sensitive to the speaker interaction than others, and respond differently to the changes in impedance, due to elements of the power stage design, eg whether (and how much) negative feedback they have, and different transformer winding ratios. Some amps sound better with attenuators that have a flatter impedance curve, others with one that more closely mirrors the steep rise in impedance of a real speaker at high frequency - and oddly some actually sound best with purely resistive attenuators that do none of this!

It's also subjective - for example in this thread alone you will find different people who think the Hotplate sounds good, and bad, with a Marshall. Some people like the amp to sound very compressed and saturated when driven hard, others prefer a tighter, or more dynamic sound. Different attenuators will do these things even with the same amp.

Lebarque · June 2019

I've found the Swart Night Light to be great with smaller fender-style amps.

steven70 · June 2019

ICBM said:

steven70 said:

Can I ask, why attenuator a) might be good with amp x) but not good with amp y) , while attenuator b) might work better?

Assuming they are both passive.

I thought an attenuator was basically a bag of resistors...so what would cause them to behave differently with different amps?
Is that more to do with other circuitry e.g. 'bright' and 'warm' switches- or is there more...

Basically the problem is that a speaker is not a plain resistance, it's a reactive load that has a large inductance as well, which means that its impedance changes with frequency - the interaction between this and the amp significantly alters the tone and dynamic response of the amp. So you would think that the solution is to make the load reactive in the same way... but it's not that simple, since the speaker's reactance is not only non-linear, it also changes with how hard it's being driven, because a speaker is an electro-mechanical system not purely electrical.

To make it even more complex, some amps seem to be more sensitive to the speaker interaction than others, and respond differently to the changes in impedance, due to elements of the power stage design, eg whether (and how much) negative feedback they have, and different transformer winding ratios. Some amps sound better with attenuators that have a flatter impedance curve, others with one that more closely mirrors the steep rise in impedance of a real speaker at high frequency - and oddly some actually sound best with purely resistive attenuators that do none of this!

It's also subjective - for example in this thread alone you will find different people who think the Hotplate sounds good, and bad, with a Marshall. Some people like the amp to sound very compressed and saturated when driven hard, others prefer a tighter, or more dynamic sound. Different attenuators will do these things even with the same amp.

Fantastic- really appreciated,thank you. More factors at play than I had imagined...and as you say, it's all subjective.
I'm going to start lusting after different attenuators now...

Jonathanthomas83 · June 2019

I wish @ICBM would start a YouTube channel or a blog for all this insightful stuff. You're missing a money maker, mate.

JezWynd · June 2019

I don't know if it would be of use but you are welcome to try my Carl's Custom Speaker Soak. I believe that it's rated for 8ohm although it's not marked as such on the unit. I used it to send to a 15" from my Laney Cub 10. It doesn't seem to make a great deal of difference to me until it's cranked 80%+, after which it noticeably attenuates the volume. It's not getting used since I got the WEM, so you are welcome to have it.

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Best passive attenuator?

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