Mixing speakers in a 2x12 ?

Drew_TNBD · May 2014

From what I recall, @Octatonic has golds in a 2x12. It sounded lovely when I heard it.

Fusionista · May 2014

Cirrus said:
That said, I really didn't like my golds in a closed back cab. They seemed to become very mushy and lost all their midrange and treble character.

So let's say I keep the Golds and replace the Hot 100's in the open-backed cab. That still leaves me with a V30 + CL80 in the closed back. It's a tribute to Paul Weller's with a roundel - he used G12c's - birch-ply all round, large but not deep.

Ideas welcome, with rationale for preference

Dave_Mc · May 2014

I don't push any of my speakers much and I think they sound alright

) I haven't noticed much difference between higher and lower wattage speakers in terms of sounding good if they're not pushed, and what difference there is I imagine is more due to the speaker's other specs (rather than just wattage). Could be wrong.

I haven't tried the golds so I can't say anything about them...

octatonic · May 2014

Drew_fx said:

From what I recall, @Octatonic has golds in a 2x12. It sounded lovely when I heard it.

Currently gold + old v30.

It sounds absolutely enormous.

ICBM · May 2014

Fusionista said:

Well I was just about to install the 2 Golds (in the closed back 2x12) when my mate said to me "You haven't got an amp louder than 40-50 watts - which you almost never use balls out - and you are going to put 2 50w-rated speakers together ? You'll never get any tone out of 'em."

Your mate is completely, 100% wrong.

musteatbrain · May 2014

Sorry for the slight derailment, but has anyone tried a gold and a blue? Martin (mjw) is building me a 2x12 soon and this is what I have to go in it. It will be to go with my 36w roadstar head. The whole lot in attention seeking white.

Fusionista · May 2014

Not a derailment at all, but mixing such diverse power capabilities might make for some weirdness.

Cirrus · May 2014

I wasn't a fan of it, seemed the worst of both worlds to me. But then, I've heard people loving it and I didn't think much of that particular blue so maybe it was just a duff speaker. My preference is always to fill a cab with the same speaker type though.

Fusionista · May 2014

octatonic said:

Drew_fx said:

From what I recall, @Octatonic has golds in a 2x12. It sounded lovely when I heard it.

Currently gold + old v30.
It sounds absolutely enormous.

That was my original intention, which I could still try I suppose, but in line with @Cirrus ' thinking, thought I might have 4 different 2x12 cabs, with G12Ms, G12Hs, Blues and Golds, so I could really sort out the differences in my own mind.

It is possible to have too much bass - the Hot 100's do IMO and so does the 4x12 Hiwatt cab with Fanes in one of my mates has just bought, makes me sound very boomy. Also why I prefer the Zilla Moderns to the Fatboy. But then there are two guitars in my current band and I do need to cut through.

ICBM · May 2014

musteatbrain said:

Sorry for the slight derailment, but has anyone tried a gold and a blue?

Martin (mjw) is building me a 2x12 soon and this is what I have to go in it.

It will be to go with my 36w roadstar head.

Risky. That's at the very upper end of the power handling of the Blue, even though it's pretty conservatively rated. It's an expensive thing to find you got wrong if you do blow it.

I tried the Gold and V30 mix in my Trem-o-verb for a while - sounded absolutely great for clean and low-gain overdrive, but not as good as the straight two V30s for high-gain - the Gold had a metallic overtone I didn't like.

octatonic · May 2014

ICBM said:

musteatbrain said:

Sorry for the slight derailment, but has anyone tried a gold and a blue?

Martin (mjw) is building me a 2x12 soon and this is what I have to go in it.

It will be to go with my 36w roadstar head.
Risky. That's at the very upper end of the power handling of the Blue, even though it's pretty conservatively rated. It's an expensive thing to find you got wrong if you do blow it.

I tried the Gold and V30 mix in my Trem-o-verb for a while - sounded absolutely great for clean and low-gain overdrive, but not as good as the straight two V30s for high-gain - the Gold had a metallic overtone I didn't like.

I love that overtone- it sounds to me like the speaker is trying to tear itself apart.

musteatbrain · May 2014

ICBM said:

musteatbrain said:

Sorry for the slight derailment, but has anyone tried a gold and a blue?

Martin (mjw) is building me a 2x12 soon and this is what I have to go in it.

It will be to go with my 36w roadstar head.
Risky. That's at the very upper end of the power handling of the Blue, even though it's pretty conservatively rated. It's an expensive thing to find you got wrong if you do blow it.

I tried the Gold and V30 mix in my Trem-o-verb for a while - sounded absolutely great for clean and low-gain overdrive, but not as good as the straight two V30s for high-gain - the Gold had a metallic overtone I didn't like.

It is close, but it works with a Z Wreck without too many issues. I'm not really bothered about lots of gain with this amp so I think I'm going to take the gamble. If it doesn't work, I may try a Gold and a V30

ToneControl · May 2014

Drew_fx said:

From what I recall, @Octatonic has golds in a 2x12. It sounded lovely when I heard it.

I have a 2x12 Zilla with Golds, sounds great, I use it open back

longjaw · May 2014

I've just wired up an Orange 2 x 12 " cab with a pair of Celestions for a 60s/70s "classic rock" sound: a V30 and a G12-65.

Sounds really good but not quite as loud I'd hoped TBH - which is a bit of a surprise considering how sensitive V30s are.

ICBM · May 2014

octatonic said:
I love that overtone- it sounds to me like the speaker is trying to tear itself apart.

I quite like that when it's that Neil Young mushy/grinding sort of sound, but the Gold overtone was in that frequency range I really hate, a sort of "whang" sound. It's fine for mid-gain and maybe even tight high-gain, but (sorry, technical bit coming up…

) one of the things that makes the Modern high-gain sound on the Trem-o-verb so good is that it turns off the amp's NFB loop - which makes it very open and resonant, but it also means the speaker has a much bigger influence of the sound of the distortion, and it somehow exaggerated the wrong bit. A shame, because the clean and low-gain sound with it (and NFB engaged) was spectacularly good.

ToneControl · May 2014

ICBM said:

Fusionista said:

Well I was just about to install the 2 Golds (in the closed back 2x12) when my mate said to me "You haven't got an amp louder than 40-50 watts - which you almost never use balls out - and you are going to put 2 50w-rated speakers together ? You'll never get any tone out of 'em."

Your mate is completely, 100% wrong.

yes,

@Fusionista

AFAIK the main reason for not buying higher rated speakers is that it can be cheaper, or that you want a specific design, e.g. a Celestion Blue

Some speaker types cost a lot more for the high-power versions

btw, even 1w amps sound great through a 2x12 or 4x12 fitted with high-power drivers

I know you don't intend to, but it's worth saying that the practice of overloading speaker drivers/voice coils is not guaranteed to create an attractive sound, and voice coils are expensive to replace

ToneControl · May 2014

musteatbrain said:

Sorry for the slight derailment, but has anyone tried a gold and a blue? Martin (mjw) is building me a 2x12 soon and this is what I have to go in it. It will be to go with my 36w roadstar head. The whole lot in attention seeking white.

Did you ask Martin?

I thought the Roadstar was more suited to v30s, and the other standard Celestion rock speakers

I can try my roadstar with my 2x12 Gold for you

I am not sure Blue+ Gold will sound much different to 2xGold

The worry is that the Blue could take 80% of the power (it may have lower impedance at certain frequencies) - and self destruct. I suspect you can run them in series to stop one driver taking all the current, but even then, half of 36w is 18w

octatonic · May 2014

ICBM said:

octatonic said:
I love that overtone- it sounds to me like the speaker is trying to tear itself apart.

I quite like that when it's that Neil Young mushy/grinding sort of sound, but the Gold overtone was in that frequency range I really hate, a sort of "whang" sound. It's fine for mid-gain and maybe even tight high-gain, but (sorry, technical bit coming up… ) one of the things that makes the Modern high-gain sound on the Trem-o-verb so good is that it turns off the amp's NFB loop - which makes it very open and resonant, but it also means the speaker has a much bigger influence of the sound of the distortion, and it somehow exaggerated the wrong bit. A shame, because the clean and low-gain sound with it (and NFB engaged) was spectacularly good.

I'm using it with a CAA PT50- which is like a hotrodded Marshall.

There is something in the structure of the upper mids that really takes to the Gold and V30 combination.

Originally it was a compromise- I wanted to get a couple of Scumbacks but they were stupid money.

When I eventually heard the Scumbacks against the current set up I actually preferred the Gold + V30.

The cab responds differently at volume- I am sure I hear more of one speaker (I guess the V30) at low volume and then more of the other one at high volume.

I know they have the same sensitivity but they definitely handle power differently.

I kinda like that about the cab as well- turning up loud feels like a turbo boost.

Fusionista · May 2014

ToneControl said:

musteatbrain said:

Sorry for the slight derailment, but has anyone tried a gold and a blue? Martin (mjw) is building me a 2x12 soon and this is what I have to go in it. It will be to go with my 36w roadstar head. The whole lot in attention seeking white.
The worry is that the Blue could take 80% of the power (it may have lower impedance at certain frequencies) - and self destruct. I suspect you can run them in series to stop one driver taking all the current, but even then, half of 36w is 18w

This is what I meant by 'weirdness'

Following this reprise of the thread I have decided to stick with the V30/Gold mix and if it doesn't twerk my dick, move to two Golds.

As I am a great fan of the G12M, I am kinda interested in testing out the G12-65 Creamback, if anyone has any opinions ?

Dave_Mc · May 2014

ICBM said:

musteatbrain said:

Sorry for the slight derailment, but has anyone tried a gold and a blue?

Martin (mjw) is building me a 2x12 soon and this is what I have to go in it.

It will be to go with my 36w roadstar head.
Risky. That's at the very upper end of the power handling of the Blue, even though it's pretty conservatively rated. It's an expensive thing to find you got wrong if you do blow it.

That's what I was going to say.

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Mixing speakers in a 2x12 ?

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