How much would you pay for an "Made in China" guitar.

ToneControl · September 2014

and back to guitars: I have bought 2 Chinese-made Artcores that are very close to big-name USA-quality

Chinese-made instruments do tend to suffer on residual value, but tbh, once they are second-hand, and any little niggles in setups have been addressed (same as with Gibsons I've owned) - like nut slots, they will serve you well long-term, and hold their price. It's just a lower percentage of the new price than with Gibson. That's what brand names achieve.

randomhandclaps · September 2014

One of my preferences for well made American guitars is that when I show it to people they don't tend to bring up the Kent State University shootings, The US's busy historical slave trade, Guantanamo bay, the disproportionate prosecution rate of black Americans, their antiquated death penalty and the mistakes the system has made, their appalling gun controls laws or the lack of health or educational opportunities for the poor or disadvantaged. It definitely makes me feel better about my purchase.

richardhomer · September 2014

^
Wisdom, wow and lol not available simultaneously, so gone with 'wow'....

GuitarMonkey · September 2014

Dave_Mc said:

I guess what I'm saying is, being prepared to pay more for something which is MIC is no guarantee that that extra money will go to the workers. Which is why I think it's important to bear in mind what I'm saying, too i.e. if it costs less to make, those extra savings should either (ideally) be passed on to the workers making the thing (who are on lower wages than they probably should be) or, if not, passed on to the consumer who buys the product.

A guitar company exists for one thing only, and that is to maximise returns for its investors. To do this it must:

Source product as cheaply as possible and
Sell it for as much as it can.

That's it.

ADP · September 2014

You can buy a Chinese guitar because it's cheap and it benefits you.

You can buy a Chinese guitar because it's cheap, it benefits you and you feel that it also benefits the people of China.

You can refuse to buy a Chinese guitar because, while it might benefit you, it also benefits the economy of China and you feel that does not benefit the economy of the rest of the world.

We all make our choices.

Iamnobody · September 2014

randomhandclaps;345828" said:
One of my preferences for well made American guitars is that when I show it to people they don't tend to bring up the Kent State University shootings, The US's busy historical slave trade, Guantanamo bay, the disproportionate prosecution rate of black Americans, their antiquated death penalty and the mistakes the system has made, their appalling gun controls laws or the lack of health or educational opportunities for the poor or disadvantaged. It definitely makes me feel better about my purchase.

Strangely that's exactly why I DO but USA made guitars...

Joking aside - I was horrified when I saw the price of some Chinese built guitars. But is been out the game a while and the progress made had (true) bypassed me.

The country of origin doesn't bother me so much now. But every guitar purchase I make is a luxury item that should I fall on hard times would be sold if necessary.

Consequently I buy used 90% of the time which offers better value and resale prices.

Rox · September 2014

randomhandclaps said:

ICBM said:

I would pay what I thought the guitar was worth for the quality it is. Country of origin by itself is irrelevant.

Absolutely agree. I got bought a high end Ibanez by my lovely wife. I took it out the case and loved it. Then after a couple on moments noticed that it said 'Made In Indonesia' on the back of the headstock. It took me back and I rather snobbishly tried to find something I didn't like about it (without letting onto my wife) as I was a little bit disappointed that I had an expensive guitar from Indonesia. Once I got over myself I have to say it is built phenomenally and well worth what she paid.

I have to agree with this: I had a Washburn WI66PRO in Honeyburst made in Indonesia that was simply spot on out of the box. It was set up perfectly and sounded great. It was towards the end of Washburn's last ownership shenanigans, and it was heavily discounted - a heck of a bargain.

Dave_Mc · September 2014

ToneControl said:

I recently read "The undercover economist", which covers the pros and cons of "sweatshops" and "cheap labour"
Better to read it for yourself, but basically unrestricted international trade tends to improve poor countries - and people never work for low wages unless they were working for lower still wages before. Quality of life in China has increased massively.

Yeah I think Oxfam says a similar thing too (or at least they used to).

That doesn't mean you have to like it or accept it as the only way, though- they could still pay their workers better.

randomhandclaps said:

One of my preferences for well made American guitars is that when I show it to people they don't tend to bring up the Kent State University shootings, The US's busy historical slave trade, Guantanamo bay, the disproportionate prosecution rate of black Americans, their antiquated death penalty and the mistakes the system has made, their appalling gun controls laws or the lack of health or educational opportunities for the poor or disadvantaged. It definitely makes me feel better about my purchase.

LOL

GuitarMonkey said:

Dave_Mc said:

I guess what I'm saying is, being prepared to pay more for something which is MIC is no guarantee that that extra money will go to the workers. Which is why I think it's important to bear in mind what I'm saying, too i.e. if it costs less to make, those extra savings should either (ideally) be passed on to the workers making the thing (who are on lower wages than they probably should be) or, if not, passed on to the consumer who buys the product.

A guitar company exists for one thing only, and that is to maximise returns for its investors. To do this it must:
Source product as cheaply as possible and
Sell it for as much as it can.
That's it.

Absolutely. I'm well aware of that.

And I can buy what I like.

ADP said:

You can buy a Chinese guitar because it's cheap and it benefits you.
You can buy a Chinese guitar because it's cheap, it benefits you and you feel that it also benefits the people of China.
You can refuse to buy a Chinese guitar because, while it might benefit you, it also benefits the economy of China and you feel that does not benefit the economy of the rest of the world.
We all make our choices.

Exactly (and probably a bunch of other options you didn't mention there, too).

GuitarMonkey · September 2014

Dave_Mc said:

GuitarMonkey said:

Dave_Mc said:

I guess what I'm saying is, being prepared to pay more for something which is MIC is no guarantee that that extra money will go to the workers. Which is why I think it's important to bear in mind what I'm saying, too i.e. if it costs less to make, those extra savings should either (ideally) be passed on to the workers making the thing (who are on lower wages than they probably should be) or, if not, passed on to the consumer who buys the product.

A guitar company exists for one thing only, and that is to maximise returns for its investors. To do this it must:
Source product as cheaply as possible and
Sell it for as much as it can.
That's it.

Absolutely. I'm well aware of that.

And I can buy what I like.

Quite. Public perception of the brand is a factor that will affect the retail price.

Dave_Mc · September 2014

True.

(Using "Quite" like that cracks me up, that's what the LOL was for, not that I thought your point was silly

)

OilCityPickups · September 2014

I have lots of Chinese guitars, and I gig with several of them and use the rest to demo pickups. My Artcore semis are pretty much impossible to beat at the price ... my Squire Vintage Modified are amazing value and quality ... I also have a couple of Vintage guitars Epis etc etc.
Would I buy a Chinese guitar over aboth £600? No .. at that point I could afford to buy one from another country with an appalling human rights record ... the USA!

Arktik83 · September 2014

You could argue that people pay a premium for Apple products but I doubt that we pay those kinds of prices because of the name, you're paying for something that it is pretty innovative, has a steady OS and has been a pioneer of new technology. You're paying for the ideas and time that it took to develop those ideas to reach your phone/laptop/tablet computer. Yes they aren't manufactured in the USA or England or France but in China which leads me to develop on my original notion.

When I picked up the Fireman, it was just dead. Now I've had quite a few Chinese guitars too and some of them have been punching way way way above their weight in terms of quality, this fireman was not the case. It played like one of those Lemon Epiphone's you can get which really disappointed me.

If the guitar was handmade in China or even just in small numbers by a skilled luthier then I would have no qualms about paying that kind of price but it was clearly an off the conveyer belt jobbie

Maybe it's like some people have said, because people have grown to expect flaws in many production line guitars the QC was lax.

ICBM · September 2014

Why would you pay that price for a hand made guitar or luthier made guitar which sounded dead when you wouldn't for a "conveyor belt" one?

Fenders (for example) are "conveyor belt" guitars and a lot of them sound great. They were designed from the outset to be mass produced. You get good ones and bad ones by either production method.

You might also be surprised by the amount of hand work in some of the cheapest, most poorly-made guitars - that's *why* they're poor, often...

Hand making something is no guarantee of quality, and often quite the opposite. Where this idea that 'hand made is best' has come from in our largely near-perfect, machine-made world I don't know! If everything was hand made we'd be back in the 18th century.

Arktik83 · September 2014

ICBM said:

Why would you pay that price for a hand made guitar or luthier made guitar which sounded dead when you wouldn't for a "conveyor belt" one?

Fenders (for example) are "conveyor belt" guitars and a lot of them sound great. They were designed from the outset to be mass produced. You get good ones and bad ones by either production method.

You might also be surprised by the amount of hand work in some of the cheapest, most poorly-made guitars - that's *why* they're poor, often...

Hand making something is no guarantee of quality, and often quite the opposite. Where this idea that 'hand made is best' has come from in our largely near-perfect, machine-made world I don't know! If everything was hand made we'd be back in the 18th century.

Very true! Should just value guitars on their own merits and not if it was hand finished/whatever. I keep on digging myself a hole here

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How much would you pay for an "Made in China" guitar.

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