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pondering, modelling amps are getting a lot better and the last few years have made them jump forward.
I spent some time with a Kemper and was really impressed, but that said I found myself lacking the feel of my own amp. I've discussed this before, but one thing that's only really just occurred to me.
The modelling amps are judged by how close they can get to the sound and response of the real amps they model, lets say 15 years time, amps are not made because the digital amps are that good, what will the digital amps model as there is nothing there to model as amp production has stopped.
Do you think digital amps can be taken forward as a starting platform rather than a modelling of existing amps platform ? can you see this becoming the norm (I can't at this stage - not even 15 years down the line).
Interested in hearing your thoughts.
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Comments
*An Official Foo-Approved guitarist since Sept 2023.
No, they don't feel the same, but they do have some dynamics in them and are remarkably good sounding - actually losing some of the blackstar dark voicing on some settings, too.
Okay, it won't replace a tweed deluxe, but come on - a tweed deluxe won't replace a jcm800. It's a good, solid sounding gigging amp.
I don't think valves amps are on their way out. I think, and hope, modelling continues to get better.
The other thing is unfair comparison. Modellers are usually demod in recording software DI'D or at low volume. Rock the volume up a bit, and dial it well, it'll surprise you.
Do you think a Dumble would sound quite as good if it was DI'D?
sorry, I'm not suggesting valve amps are on the way out, I'm questioning how the modelling amps will evolve, if there is nothing new to model because amps are being replaced by digital ones, what will push it forward.
I'm not aware of the good units like AxeFX or Kemper having the "Axe Amp" or the "Kemper clean" amps, they are all models of something else, so what if you take that modelling source away, will the digital world start to develop their own amp sounds ?
"yamaha thr, blackstar ID and id core are excellent - and the ID range of gigging amps actually *feel* like amps, something @darcym has alluded to. "
I agree TPD that the above amps have had a lot of good rep.
However I do disagree that valves will continue. I believe their time is about done in mass consumer products like guitar amps. I say this because the counties that presently make them will get "greener". Either by internal pressure or more likely by world condemnation as the facts of the bad practices leak out.
Some will stop production altogether pushing prices up. Some will clean up and push prices up! Whatever the scenario that plays out I foresee a £50 bog standard ECC83 in no more than a decade. 100quid a pop for basic EL84s and you will need a second mortgage for a quartet of KT88s/6550s.
Dave.
Obviously there have been new amps and slightly different sounds since then, but nothing that has revolutionised guitar tone in the same way. That's a longer time - by far - than any other amp sound has remained 'the last'.
So I would say that the era of valve amps being the driving factor in tone and music is probably over. Where we go from here is more debatable...
"Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski
"Only two things are infinite - the universe, and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
On FAS modern (From Axe wiki)
" Implementing second-order filters in a real tube amp is difficult and costly so is rarely seen"
Cathode follower, Sallen and Key? Would not break the bank IMHO.
Dave.
It's the same with effects. The last 'new' effect really was the Digitech Whammy - which was an older effect (pitch-shifting) controlled in a new way. The Boss Tera Echo is a couple of older effects melded into one.
All of which leads me to conclude that to be of interest, anything 'new' has to have a musical application.
I think there is enough variation between clean and dirty, dark and bright, mid-heavy and mid-scooped available already in the market to cover any sound that may be considered 'musical'.
In a lot of djent they use modellers as their preferred choice for hyper aggressive gated stuff. They aren't bothered about valve amps.
Ok i'm going to put my hat into the ring here and suggest something that may alreayd have been eluded to.
Is part of the problem that we are so stuck in our ways of wanting to re-create the sound of a plexi/bassman/AC30 that we are not letting the creative forces bring us something new and exciting?
Almost every single amp is now based on a classic design - because that's what the market demands. Anything completley brand new will probably be shunned until (as already mentioned) the next guitar superstar starts using one.
And a guy in a local rock covers band used to gig with a Line 6 POD II HD and cab and got some excellent classic rock tones .. punters really don't care what you're playing through .. there are modellers that are good enough to gig with. The problem is pure snobbery on the part of guitarists .. by the time you add bass, drums, a vocalist and maybe keyboards plus a bunch of punters the average Joe won't know if you have a valve amp, a modelling amp or a laptop and some software [which is where I think we'll end up].
Remember, it's easier to criticise than create!