eBay getting hot on dealing outside

JezWynd

Jack_ said:

Neil said:

IMO If you don't want to abide by their rules then don't use ebay.

There are plenty of other avenues of sale available nowadays.

Of course what many want to do is use the worlds biggest online market place and not pay for the privilege. 

It's kind of hard to accept being told by a company to obey their rules, when the company itself is notorious for avoiding state tax rules.

So two wrongs do make a right?

Jack_

JezWynd said:

Jack_ said:

Neil said:

IMO If you don't want to abide by their rules then don't use ebay.

There are plenty of other avenues of sale available nowadays.

Of course what many want to do is use the worlds biggest online market place and not pay for the privilege. 

It's kind of hard to accept being told by a company to obey their rules, when the company itself is notorious for avoiding state tax rules.

So two wrongs do make a right?

In this case, yes.

Neil

SteveRobinson said:

As I understand things, it's following the rules but the rules are made to such companies' advantage.

Well of course they are.

They are not going to make the rules to their disadvantage are they? 

SteveRobinson

I meant the rules/laws of corporate taxation

Funkfingers

eBay is providing a service. Use of their service is entirely optional. 

Older members will recall the delights of pre-Internet gear selling. Charged by the word. Pretty localised reach. Usually, weekly publication. A preponderance of chancers, tyre-kickers and time-wasters.

The present day electronic version is pretty similar, just speeded up.

The eBay/PayPal axis has taken great pains to establish its market position. Now that the general populace is addicted, the axis is ideally placed for world domination.

Doubtless, things could be done better. It would probably take ten years for a replacement to dominate the market. Chances are that the new bunch would be just as exploitative as the current bunch.

Jack_

I understand the rules, and I understand I've broken them several times, as I'm sure the majority of others here have.

This thread wasn't to debate morality or choice, merely to serve as a a warning to be careful about how you deal with and through eBay going forward.

Their algorithms are getting smarter/less lenient, the punishments harsher - this was what I was hoping to pass on.

Funkfingers

I know. I got warning messages and a week of communications denied. This, despite the fact that it was my would-be buyer who requested private communications information.

The seller always gets clobbered.

Strat54

Reverb charge 3.5% if your item sells up to a max $350 then a 2.5% fee for the direct payment also. Not sure if they police it like ebay, I would suspect so. So if you sell a £2k guitar that's £120 gone, so no bargain either...but I'd rather Reverb have it than Ebay! 
The lack of great guitars on ebay these days tells me that sellers are avoiding it now, the seller groups on Facebook are taking over slowly. maybe?

Jack_

Power corrupts though, even those that run the facebook groups eventually start manipulating things so the group benefits them/makes them money, I guess it's become human nature to some extent.

Plus pretty much all the facebook groups aren't administrated very well, too many vague WTB posts, or any interest in my I don't want to provide a price for guitar... Plus they're not a good way to display large amounts of information, lots of bumping required etc.

Facebook seem to be putting some effort into improving the buying and selling features, but you can be 100% sure as soon as they reach a point where they feel they have market share and can monetise it more they will, without a single doubt.

Reverb's 3.5% feels like a fair amount for the service provided, but if they had market share, would they resist increasing that figure? I highly doubt it. I do think Reverb have a far better understanding of the needs of musicians with regards to buying and selling gear though, I like their honesty policy and that they don't tie you down too much, I'd definitely rather use Reverb when possible.

Unfortunately, it's just the way it is to some extent.

scalino65

Does the send a picture of your phone number trick still work? How can you agree to a high value purchase of a guitar or car,etc without going to check it out first?

Jack_

scalino65 said:

Does the send a picture of your phone number trick still work? How can you agree to a high value purchase of a guitar or car,etc without going to check it out first?

Yes, you can still do that, and it will go through - but every photo uploaded to eBay is kept by them, so don't be surprised if some time long after the listing has finished you get pulled up after someone has checked through pictures - this has happened to me before.

Really you need to be suggestive and hope the buyer/seller is on the ball, but many aren't. It's about not breaking the rules or bending them but not breaking them, you're trying to divert buyers to other sites without saying directly "please check for this item on Reverb, because I'd rather deal through there".

bingefeller

I got a warning last time too, have to be more careful. I always email old buyers before I put anything on eBay to see if they're interested.  

OilCityPickups

I started selling my pickups via e bay five years ago, but pulled the plug on this when e bay stopped allowing sellers to post negative feedback about buyers. This started the slippery slope as far as I was concerned as anybody had  licence to mess you about with no real recourse at all. I still use e bay for some purchases, and have been known to sell the odd music related item, but nothing of high value, its simply too risky for the seller these days. 
E bay have the right to make up whatever rules they want, and we simply need to be aware of the way things operate and safeguard ourselves. Of one breaks those rules then it is our lookout. 
I have huge issues with PayPal too, their complaints procedure is tilted ridiculously far in favour of the buyer, and were it not for the fact that it's practically 'he only game in town' I would abandon that as well. 

JezWynd

It's weird how the internet was initially seen as empowering the individual but is now morphing into a monopolistic environment where the rules are increasingly favouring the powerful. Plus ça change.

Funkfingers

The eBay ideal business model appears to be a sort of global mail order department store. They skim a percentage on all transactions. If a government does that, it is called taxation. If a warlord or terrorist organisation does that, it is called an extortion racket.

Whichever way you look at it, eBay trading practices are inappropriate for the buying, selling or swapping of high value pre-owned musical equipment.

If you agree that the electronic classified advertisement provision on, for the sake of argument, THIS board is run in an acceptable way, you have tacitly accepted the fact that it is hosted by somebody and that there must be some overheads to cover. Hence, the donation request thread.

Chalky

JezWynd said:

It's weird how the internet was initially seen as empowering the individual but is now morphing into a monopolistic environment where the rules are increasingly favouring the powerful. Plus ça change.

It's also interesting the way the changes are happening quite rapidly (compared to previous real-world rate of change) and yet are being accepted by consumers equally rapidly.  

Plus the monopolistic ones are massive and any apparent contenders face incredible levels of dilution from other contenders.

OilCityPickups

JezWynd said:

It's weird how the internet was initially seen as empowering the individual but is now morphing into a monopolistic environment where the rules are increasingly favouring the powerful. Plus ça change.

Twas always ever thus :-)
Human nature being what it is, we are all in favour of the 'little guy' while we are little guys ourselves, but when we start becoming the 'big guy' the little guy becomes an inconvenience to our continued upwards movement. 
The internet is a wonderful tool and indispensable nowadays, but little guys have become corporate magnates, and the whole shooting match is largely being run for their benefit, and the benefit of their shareholders. 
Speaking to people is being replaced with 'tickets' and algorithms because it's cheaper and maximises profit by minimising staff. There is still however an underground, small businesses who refuse to abandon personal service, and I count myself as one of those. I use the internet as a tool, but I refuse to let it dominate my business.
I personally love the freedom of booking my air tickets online, getting a takeaway with a few clicks, managing my life from my smartphone ... but the price is a degree of dehumanisation.  

streethawk

I rarely sell on ebay but unfortunately if smaller shops don't have an ebay profile they're more or less invisible.

I don't like stocking the really cheap chinese stuff and that means you're screwed when It comes to price matching. EBay sales are all about numbers sold and lowest price.

To be fair, it's sort of an advertising tool and you don't have to pay ebay shop fees if you don't want to.

Rather than banning accounts they should tie it in to seller feedback score and knock % points off.

siraxeman

I know someone that just sold a JVM head on ebay, by suggesting that any buyer contact him through his website wherein they shall find the relevant contact details that are barred on ebay. It worked a treat. He knocked £25 off the top for the buyer but listed it £25 more than he was prepared to let it go for in the first place so in the end he got his exact figure he had in mind and no fees. He's dead clever. Well I think so anyway. ;-)

I just sold a Boss PS-6 on ebay, thru ebay n all. £85 which after their fees makes me just a couple of squids down on what I bought it for off here less than 2 months ago. So in that case not much of a loss if you can buy for a good price there's room for ebays greedy fees.

Neil

If you lot think ebay's fees are greedy (I don't personally)  I recommend you have a look to see what traditional auctions charge.