Fender amps why the love??

koneguitarist

PolarityMan said:

koneguitarist said:

In full troll mode here, but I do actually think this, if you play with heavy distortion then it doesn't matter what amp you use. 
Guys like @ToneControl @Gassage @richardhomer and myself, enjoy the amp tones that's on breakup not distorted or clean that in between sound where the amp responds to the guitarist touch. That's the point that so many modellers and tranny amps can't yet reach, although they're getting very close. 

If you think hi gain isn't touch sensitive then you cant play high gain. 

You got a point there. ;-)

dindude

robinbowes said:

dindude said:

Remember also, the audience don't care

This is the most important thing to remember.

Although my comment was in jest, 'cause I hate this statement with a passion.

PolarityMan

shaunm said:

Theres high gain in a school sense, which is just turn it up as much as possible because it covers mistakes but then there’s high gain in terms of Dime and the like.

Except high gain doesn't cover mistakes it makes them louder at least at gig volume. You need to mute everything you're not playing much more explicitly than with clean or crunch settings. 

professorben

PolarityMan said:

shaunm said:

Theres high gain in a school sense, which is just turn it up as much as possible because it covers mistakes but then there’s high gain in terms of Dime and the like.

Except high gain doesn't cover mistakes it makes them louder at least at gig volume. You need to mute everything you're not playing much more explicitly than with clean or crunch settings. 

Hmmm I don't actually agree with this but with a proviso. 

Sloppy playing is sloppy regardless of the gain levels, high gain usually means loud band, when you have 4-5 guys going hell for leather mistakes can be hidden. 

What high gain does is raise the background noise to levels where it will drown out the intentional noises. 

I think you have to be a cleaner tighter player with high gain purely because any extra noises will be amplified. 

shaunm

PolarityMan said:

shaunm said:

Theres high gain in a school sense, which is just turn it up as much as possible because it covers mistakes but then there’s high gain in terms of Dime and the like.

Except high gain doesn't cover mistakes it makes them louder at least at gig volume. You need to mute everything you're not playing much more explicitly than with clean or crunch settings. 

It kind of does though if you are using a shitty line 6, you’re 14 years old and you max out the gain, scoop the hell out of it and add a wah pedal. You not only nail  Metallica but it is far more forgiving than if you tried to play clean. 

Dont take what what I said wrong though, if you have a decent high gain amp, decent EQ etc and you play a shit note then everyone listening will hear that mistake. 

I gave reference to high gain in a high school sense because at that point I had two choices clean as a whistle or maxed out scooped thrash sounds on a terrible amp. Trust me, at that point high gain covers more mistakes.

ToneControl

PolarityMan said:

shaunm said:

Theres high gain in a school sense, which is just turn it up as much as possible because it covers mistakes but then there’s high gain in terms of Dime and the like.

Except high gain doesn't cover mistakes it makes them louder at least at gig volume. You need to mute everything you're not playing much more explicitly than with clean or crunch settings. 

it's a different technique, certainly. It needs to be mastered, as I had to when I first played high gain in t'80s

what you don't get is the variation in dynamics. Imagine a top-notch grand piano sample set, but you play it with the controller set to send velocity=128 for every note, then change it to vary between 0 and 128 based on your touch, which is what you get with an acoustic guitar. A clean electric is somewhere in between, and many people can feel and hear that dynamic variation.

To be honest that's why I listen to very little high gain stuff nowadays: personal taste - I want to hear light and shade

Where were we: oh yes, some amps do light and shade much better than others

PolarityMan

shaunm said:

PolarityMan said:

shaunm said:

Theres high gain in a school sense, which is just turn it up as much as possible because it covers mistakes but then there’s high gain in terms of Dime and the like.

Except high gain doesn't cover mistakes it makes them louder at least at gig volume. You need to mute everything you're not playing much more explicitly than with clean or crunch settings. 

It kind of does though if you are using a shitty line 6, you’re 14 years old and you max out the gain, scoop the hell out of it and add a wah pedal. You not only nail  Metallica but it is far more forgiving than if you tried to play clean. 

Dont take what what I said wrong though, if you have a decent high gain amp, decent EQ etc and you play a shit note then everyone listening will hear that mistake. 

I gave reference to high gain in a high school sense because at that point I had two choices clean as a whistle or maxed out scooped thrash sounds on a terrible amp. Trust me, at that point high gain covers more mistakes.

I know what you mean but it's really it applicable at low volume. As soon as your loud enough for performance it's the opposite.

shaunm

ToneControl said:

PolarityMan said:

shaunm said:

Theres high gain in a school sense, which is just turn it up as much as possible because it covers mistakes but then there’s high gain in terms of Dime and the like.

Except high gain doesn't cover mistakes it makes them louder at least at gig volume. You need to mute everything you're not playing much more explicitly than with clean or crunch settings. 

it's a different technique, certainly. It needs to be mastered, as I had to when I first played high gain in t'80s

what you don't get is the variation in dynamics. Imagine a top-notch grand piano sample set, but you play it with the controller set to send velocity=128 for every note, then change it to vary between 0 and 128 based on your touch, which is what you get with an acoustic guitar. A clean electric is somewhere in between, and many people can feel and hear that dynamic variation.

To be honest that's why I listen to very little high gain stuff nowadays: personal taste - I want to hear light and shade

Where were we: oh yes, some amps do light and shade much better than others

Fenders do that well......

robmac5150

GavRichList said:

In fairness, I have the 1994 only anomaly Twin amp (evil twin). Drive channel on that is spectacular. 

totally agree. had a ton of amps and a 94 with my les paul was up there with the best

PolarityMan

shaunm said:

To be honest that's why I listen to very little high gain stuff nowadays: personal taste - I want to hear light and shade

I reckon 90% of the heavy bands I listen to also use clean tones so thats plenty of light and shade, you could argue more even.

guitarfishbay

With dynamics - It depends what the music was written for.

A lot of music is just listened to while doing stuff these days - be that working, at the gym, driving.  It's more compressed regardless of gain just because that's one way of making 'pop' (of any genre, including high gain) easier to listen to.  Try driving while listening to classical music, it's bloody impossible to get the levels right, the quiet passages disappear to road noise and the loud passages are still very loud.

High gain amps should still have enough dynamic range to respond to picking dynamics typically, if they're set up for a decent sound.  It's rare that a sound with zero dynamic range will sound good - the initial transient needs some kind of umph or it'll just sound flat and weak.  As noted controlling the dynamics and muting at volume requires skill that most don't attain until after they've worked out they need to up their technique.  I remember my first few times playing high gain at loud volumes and realising I wasn't as good of a player as I thought.

I like all kinds of music, but everything has it's own set of requirements in terms of technique and performance equipment.

ToneControl

PolarityMan said:

shaunm said:

To be honest that's why I listen to very little high gain stuff nowadays: personal taste - I want to hear light and shade

I reckon 90% of the heavy bands I listen to also use clean tones so thats plenty of light and shade, you could argue more even.

sounds great, please give me some recommendations

Marshall

professorben said:

Right. 
In the interests of education and all. 

Show me your great Fender tones!!!

link me some examples of what you all think are awesome Fender tones so that I can see if it's something I'd like to go further to check out. 

I not so arrogant (yet) that I don't appreciate that you lot have good ears and that I must be missing something. 

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=P8dGh1iEmCY   Obviously live and 1970, and if Santana ain't your kind of thing then never mind, but that's a 'stack' of Fender Twins and inmho an incredible and proper unadulterated  tone...

Marshall

professorben said:

Modulus_Amps said:

professorben said:

Now its all Scar Symmetry and Meshuggah, Periphery and The Haunted. 

Well thats the issue right there, if you walked into a guitar shop and said I am into those bands and they tried to sell you a Fender leave the shop fast. Vintage voiced fenders don't have the high mids for this sort of sound never mind the drive or power supply to hold it together at volume

Right, I know my tones at least the type I like, but are there no modern fenders? 
Or are they all tweedy voiced things?

This is less of an amp issue than a 'music genre taste' thing no?! The really big Fenders have more than enough muscle/volume/stage presence to project and deafen the audience in any sized venue and used with the requisite pedal combination for your genre requirements will happily do so all night long!! But this may not be why most people who love fenders do so. I think that's probably got more to do with the harmonic range/variety achievable at many different volumes depending on the model in question that is what appeals to so many people.

But headroom is a major consideration to countless gigging professionals which is why twins and other big fenders are one of THE biggest names in 'The Business' to this day and won't be changing any time soon....

Looking at your particular taste this link to classic  punk band Slaves will have no more appeal than any other, however it serves to illustrate my point: guitarist Laurie Vincent's main live rig consists of 2 'modern' Bassbreaker 45s supplemented with a Bass amp and a smaller combo to fill out the other frequencies....

Marshall

Marshall said:

professorben said:

Modulus_Amps said:

professorben said:

Now its all Scar Symmetry and Meshuggah, Periphery and The Haunted. 

Well thats the issue right there, if you walked into a guitar shop and said I am into those bands and they tried to sell you a Fender leave the shop fast. Vintage voiced fenders don't have the high mids for this sort of sound never mind the drive or power supply to hold it together at volume

Right, I know my tones at least the type I like, but are there no modern fenders? 
Or are they all tweedy voiced things?

This is less of an amp issue than a 'music genre taste' thing no?! The really big Fenders have more than enough muscle/volume/stage presence to project and deafen the audience in any sized venue and used with the requisite pedal combination for your genre requirements will happily do so all night long!! But this may not be why most people who love fenders do so. I think that's probably got more to do with the harmonic range/variety achievable at many different volumes depending on the model in question that is what appeals to so many people.

But headroom is a major consideration to countless gigging professionals which is why twins and other big fenders are one of THE biggest names in 'The Business' to this day and won't be changing any time soon....

Looking at your particular taste this link to classic  punk band Slaves will have no more appeal than any other, however it serves to illustrate my point: guitarist Laurie Vincent's main live rig consists of 2 'modern' Bassbreaker 45s supplemented with a Bass amp and a smaller combo to fill out the other frequencies....

Marshall

professorben said:

robinbowes said:

merlin said:

professorben said:

compromise

That one word is the summing up of this whole thread. 

I think "pointless" would be more appropriate.

What makes you say that? It's an honest inquiry as to what people like about that style of amp, to garner a greater understand of the different options available. 

Of course, take fender amplification out of the equation then how much of the pantheon of music produced over the last 60 - something years do you have to kiss bye bye to? Marshall got started ripping off the Bassman, Randall Smith/Boogie got started modding Fenders, etc etc etc...

NelsonP

This fella seems to like a fender amp....

http://www2.fender.com/experience/fender-tone/teaser-gary-clark-jr-talks-fender-gear/

daveyh

Anyone posted this?

ICBM

Marshall said:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=P8dGh1iEmCY   Obviously live and 1970, and if Santana ain't your kind of thing then never mind, but that's a 'stack' of Fender Twins and inmho an incredible and proper unadulterated  tone…

I'm not sure the amps were unadulterated though . I seem to remember his Twins were modded (possibly by César Diaz, I'm not sure) to give more gain. I don't think you can get that much gain out of a stock Twin even fully cranked and standing right in front of it with an SG. It is a great tone though! Better than his later over-compressed all-mid Boogie tone.

guitarfishbay

ToneControl said:

PolarityMan said:

shaunm said:

To be honest that's why I listen to very little high gain stuff nowadays: personal taste - I want to hear light and shade

I reckon 90% of the heavy bands I listen to also use clean tones so thats plenty of light and shade, you could argue more even.

sounds great, please give me some recommendations

Have you listened to Karnivool's Sound Awake album?