The Fractal Thread

peteri

As my AX8/Helix journey ended significantly earlier than the thread, which I have to say I'm pretty proud of.

So I thought, in response to a few comments - why not start a thread with a better title to exchange more views.

'Original' thread here:

http://thefretboard.co.uk/discussion/114002/my-ax8-vs-helix-lt-journey#latest

peteri

And to start with some more details.

Went FRFR this weekend - got a really good deal on a Yamaha DXR10 on Black Friday.

Was originally looking at a few monitors, but this was a good deal - with an easy return (I live about 5 minutes walk from Yamaha on Wardour Street) so I gave it a shot.

Very happy, much more bass and depth to the sound compared to the Tannoy Reveal monitor I was using before, partly I think because it's not at ear level - but happy.

And incredibly loud!

After struggling with the Plexi models, now I've sorted out my IR phasing - it's really one of my go-to models. I'll experiment with a 'do it all' patch with a Deluxe for clean and the Plexi for dirt.

Can anyone recommend a nice set of Fender IRs? Ownhammer don't seem to have that many.

Jonathanthomas83

@peteri good plan, can we open this up to other Fractal product oweners too please? [nudge to change the title ;-) ]

peteri

Good shout! @jonathanthomas83, thread title changed!

Jonathanthomas83

Legend, thank you! :-)

firepaulmusic

peteri said:

And to start with some more details.

Went FRFR this weekend - got a really good deal on a Yamaha DXR10 on Black Friday.

Was originally looking at a few monitors, but this was a good deal - with an easy return (I live about 5 minutes walk from Yamaha on Wardour Street) so I gave it a shot.

Very happy, much more bass and depth to the sound compared to the Tannoy Reveal monitor I was using before, partly I think because it's not at ear level - but happy.

And incredibly loud!

After struggling with the Plexi models, now I've sorted out my IR phasing - it's really one of my go-to models. I'll experiment with a 'do it all' patch with a Deluxe for clean and the Plexi for dirt.

Can anyone recommend a nice set of Fender IRs? Ownhammer don't seem to have that many.

Don't you rate the IRs in the AX8 that highly then? 

firepaulmusic

In my limited time with the AX8 I've found it more natural sounding to have a clean patch with an overdrive pedal(s) for dirt. Changing from a Fender DR to a Plexi seems too much of a difference. Anyone else have any experience of this?

Roland

firepaulmusic said:

Don't you rate the IRs in the AX8 that highly then? 

The IRs that come with the AxeFX and AX8 include IRs from multiple sources: some which Fractal Audio shot themselves, some from Ownhammer, some from other sources. IMHO the recent Fractal IRs are as good as Ownhammer’s, but recorded and processed differently. That wasn’t the case a year or so back.

Roland

firepaulmusic said:

In my limited time with the AX8 I've found it more natural sounding to have a clean patch with an overdrive pedal(s) for dirt. Changing from a Fender DR to a Plexi seems too much of a difference. Anyone else have any experience of this?

On the whole I agree with minimising the number of amps. It’s easier for the listener if the sound isn’t jumping all over the spectrum. The same applies for speakers. I use two amp types, plus the Studio Pre Amp for acoustic simulation, and two speaker types, a 2x12 for humbucker guitars, and a 4x12 for single coils.

When it comes for changing sound for a solo I use a whole range of methods:

• Turn up the guitar
• Add a mid boost
• Add a drive pedal
• Change amp settings
• Change amp type

firepaulmusic

Roland said:

firepaulmusic said:

Don't you rate the IRs in the AX8 that highly then? 

The IRs that come with the AxeFX and AX8 include IRs from multiple sources: some which Fractal Audio shot themselves, some from Ownhammer, some from other sources. IMHO the recent Fractal IRs are as good as Ownhammer’s, but recorded and processed differently. That wasn’t the case a year or so back.

That's interesting. Is there a way of identifying the better ones without trawling through them all?

Roland

firepaulmusic said:

That's interesting. Is there a way of identifying the better ones without trawling through them all?

You can focus down quite quickly based on analogue world experience. Eg, do you want 4x12, 2x12, 4x10, 1x12. Also, the newer IRs tend to have the higher sequence numbers. 

After that you’re going to need to use your ears. I used a clean amp at bedroom volume, and worked through the IRs eliminating anything that I though reduced clarity. It took about 20 minutes. The survivors got played at volume. I have the luxury of being able to use rehearsal volume at home.

FWIW I’m currently using factory IR 61: 4x12 Fractal V30 AT4047
and an Ownhammer 1x12 IR: OH_112_DLX_J12-PR_SP

I think @Clarky once posted that he was trying factory IR 103: 4x12 Basketweave TV mix. I’m not sure what he uses now.

BintyTwanger77

My Fractal journey (attempt 2) ended, and I'm afraid the FX8 went back to G66 (fantastic service). 

I really wanted to love it more than my pedals, and in terms of ease, taking it on a step with an AX8 instead would beat pedals in terms of set up, what to take to a gig...I really wanted the FX8 to beat my current set-up...but I stuck to amps and pedals because I preferred how they sounded, but purely to my ears.

I imagine one day I'll get fed up of the rewiring and carrying large amounts of gear and I'll look to an AX8 or the latest amp and effects floor modeller...if Strymon shock everyone and bring out something like an FX8 or AX8, then I'll sell the necessary internal organs to buy one.

Despite that, I'm in awe of the tech behind Fractal gear. Unbelievable flexibility and it sounds great.

Jonathanthomas83

I’ve never tried the FX8 but can categorically say that there’s absolutely no contest for me, the FX and drives in the Axe FX beat everything I’ve owned pedal-wise. The only thing I can’t get absolutely spot on is the El Cap. So can only assume that the FX8 doesn’t match up in some way. Maybe that’s due to the lack of amp modelling and the way the sounds interact. Digital FX probably don’t interact as well with analog gear as they do all in one digital box. That’s my theory anyway.

simonk

Love my FX8... that and a MkV:25 made such a great rig (or FX8 and a tiny Quilter head if I really wanted to travel light). Sadly I just can’t fall in love with the AX8 and much prefer the Helix, so much so that I’m struggling to imagine gigging anything else for the foreseeable future. We’ve got a couple weeks with no gigs over the Xmas period, so I’m going to knuckle down with the AX8 and see if I can get it to a place where I’d be happy to be seen in public with it.

Clarky

Roland said:

firepaulmusic said:

That's interesting. Is there a way of identifying the better ones without trawling through them all?

You can focus down quite quickly based on analogue world experience. Eg, do you want 4x12, 2x12, 4x10, 1x12. Also, the newer IRs tend to have the higher sequence numbers. 

After that you’re going to need to use your ears. I used a clean amp at bedroom volume, and worked through the IRs eliminating anything that I though reduced clarity. It took about 20 minutes. The survivors got played at volume. I have the luxury of being able to use rehearsal volume at home.

FWIW I’m currently using factory IR 61: 4x12 Fractal V30 AT4047
and an Ownhammer 1x12 IR: OH_112_DLX_J12-PR_SP

I think @Clarky once posted that he was trying factory IR 103: 4x12 Basketweave TV mix. I’m not sure what he uses now.

in the studio I use:
left side: 103: 4x12 Basketweave TV mix
right side: 102: 4x12 Basketweave AX mix

in my "practice" presets these are in a stereo normal res cab block [cos it don't matter]
when I record I'll still use those cabs but they'll be mono hi res [as I record the left and right guitar parts separately..

I tried the newer ultra res cabs... plus a million other cabs..
even shot many of my own mixes with cablab
just kept falling back to these.. it's pretty simple.. they work for me and are not dissimilar to my real cabs..
I use them for clean, riff and soloing tones..

Jonathanthomas83

simonk said:

Love my FX8... that and a MkV:25 made such a great rig (or FX8 and a tiny Quilter head if I really wanted to travel light). Sadly I just can’t fall in love with the AX8 and much prefer the Helix, so much so that I’m struggling to imagine gigging anything else for the foreseeable future. We’ve got a couple weeks with no gigs over the Xmas period, so I’m going to knuckle down with the AX8 and see if I can get it to a place where I’d be happy to be seen in public with it.

Is the sound letting you down or is it features? How long have you had it?

peteri

Jonathanthomas83 said:

I’ve never tried the FX8 but can categorically say that there’s absolutely no contest for me, the FX and drives in the Axe FX beat everything I’ve owned pedal-wise. The only thing I can’t get absolutely spot on is the El Cap. So can only assume that the FX8 doesn’t match up in some way. Maybe that’s due to the lack of amp modelling and the way the sounds interact. Digital FX probably don’t interact as well with analog gear as they do all in one digital box. That’s my theory anyway.

As per my other thread - that was the same for me.

I went from a G2 with Strymon, Wampler etc.pretty quickly into FRFR with AX8.

Sounds are immense, easily as good but with much more flexibility to tweak and zero GAS anymore, I've even stopped watching That Pedal Show

Obviously everyone is different, but as a long time 'try and return' modeller - meaning every generation disappointed me - the Helix/Fractal generation has nailed it.

I find the gear interacts well, apart from into an amp - too many tone stacks? Then things just aren't quite 'right'

simonk

Jonathanthomas83 said:

simonk said:

Love my FX8... that and a MkV:25 made such a great rig (or FX8 and a tiny Quilter head if I really wanted to travel light). Sadly I just can’t fall in love with the AX8 and much prefer the Helix, so much so that I’m struggling to imagine gigging anything else for the foreseeable future. We’ve got a couple weeks with no gigs over the Xmas period, so I’m going to knuckle down with the AX8 and see if I can get it to a place where I’d be happy to be seen in public with it.

Is the sound letting you down or is it features? How long have you had it?

I’ve had it 6 months or so.
There’s nothing that I particularly dislike about it apart from perhaps the interface. The sounds are good, form factor is good. The Helix is such a usability wet dream though I struggle to find the motivation to power something else up. For live use I’ve become heavily dependent on snapshots too.
As I say, I’ll spend some time with it over the holidays and try to rekindle some FAS love.

Jonathanthomas83

@simonk I can see why you'd say that, the usability is good on the Helix. For me, nothing trumps sound though, and for me, it's a no-brainer between the two. I know that's subjective though and say it whilst hiding behind my sofa!

Good luck over the holidays, hope you manage to make it work for you.

peteri said:

Sounds are immense, easily as good but with much more flexibility to tweak and zero GAS anymore, I've even stopped watching That Pedal Show 

Ha, me too! 

Jonathanthomas83

What software are you guys using to mix IRs? £49 for Redwirez software is a bit steep for me atm

Going to shave a few percent off the CPU usage by mixing down a couple of IRs rather than using two in stereo.

FarleyUK

Jonathanthomas83 said:

What software are you guys using to mix IRs? £49 for Redwirez software is a bit steep for me atm

Going to shave a few percent off the CPU usage by mixing down a couple of IRs rather than using two in stereo.

I'm using CabLab 3 - does the job very well indeed. Should be available on the Fractal store.