The Fractal Thread

Jonathanthomas83

FarleyUK said:

Jonathanthomas83 said:

What software are you guys using to mix IRs? £49 for Redwirez software is a bit steep for me atm

Going to shave a few percent off the CPU usage by mixing down a couple of IRs rather than using two in stereo.

I'm using CabLab 3 - does the job very well indeed. Should be available on the Fractal store.

Brilliant, thank you mate

guitarfishbay

Yeah CabLab is good for mixing IRs.

Since you can load 8 at once it is also handy for flicking between a bunch of favourites, plus it integrates well with the hardware.

For mixing (as in recording/mixing, not mixing IRs), I like Karzog's Recabinet, it has a simple interface with list menus and loads .wavs which is handy as it means you don't have to convert things.  I don't actually know if it can output the blend as a new IR, I've never checked.  I won't be able to check today, but I think there's a demo.  http://kazrog.com/products/recabinet/

Jonathanthomas83

Thanks both, really appreciate it. So I invested in Cablab and really glad I did, really good with the hardware isn't it!?! Love that I can mix up a bunch of IRs and within seconds it's in the Axe FX ready to roll! 

Contrary to popular opinion, I've never been able to make Ownhammer IRs work for me, no doubt they're great but they don't sound right for my purposes and tone tastes. Before I switched Axe FX, I almost exclusively used Redwirez for my three main cabs, clean (Hiwatt), crunch (Marshall) and high gain (mesa), so I've been using Cablab to do nice mixes of popular mic placements, using an R121, SM57 and an MD421 and I must admit, it sounds better than I had it before with my old setup. I've since started using the MD421 for a bit more clarity and it seems to have brightened things up a bit to the point of where I like them.

Natively mixing the correct bitrate files to 24/48 too, don't know if it helps, but it feels neater for the end product being the Axe FX. 

Can't recommend this approach enough. I've gone from stereo hi-rez cabs don't to mono hi-rez and have saved roughly 10% CPU by doing so. This could be useful for Axe 8 users too, who have limited blocks (is the cab block limited?). Allows you to mix as many IRs as you wish into a single file!

Also, cannot  recommend Redwirez IRs enough either, they're superb for my needs and sound great, Their three pager PDF about optimum mic placement is a superb place to start too - http://www.redwirez.com/ir/DialingInYourTone.pdf

guitarfishbay

The thing with IRs is everything makes a difference.  Speakers themselves are inconsistent, mics are inconsistent.  The rooms make a difference, and that's before you even get down to the actual mic technique and taste of the person making the IRs (which will be the biggest factor really).

That's why it's worth getting a cab you're familiar with from a vendor you're interested in, to see what vibe they go for.  I find OH covers what I want from the cab, and I like their file system, it just works for me.  I've got IRs from multiple different companies though, I can't remember buying an objectively bad guitar IR from a reputable company but there are different vibes from each company for sure. 

One of the biggest factors for me is organisation actually, if there are a lot of IRs it can really help if the file system makes sense so you're not just randomly clicking stuff hoping to get a sound.  Ideally you click on one and have a reference from the file system where to go next (so with OH it is the number system, with Celestion it's the descriptive words used, RW list the actual positions etc)

Jonathanthomas83

Well, I feel like a bit of an idiot now. Seems Redwirez have been gone for a while now and none of their cabs are true Ultra-Res. Being a bit of a perfectionist, I want the best there is, so am now on the hunt for something as nice sounding with the definition of the Redwirez IRs, but which is true Ultra-Res. 

After doing a lot of reading on the Fractal wiki about the benefits of a longer IR, it doesn't seem like the Redwirez IRs are long enough to capture seemingly vital frequencies. The hunt continues! 

FarleyUK

I have a love / hate relationship with IRs. Brilliant to have tons of options, but it's also a complete time-sink; I swear I spend more time trying to find 'that sound' than I do actually playing

Personally, I'd recommend the OH Heavy Hitters 2 collection; some great stuff in there, and I'm using a mix of either the Zilla 212 M25 and V30 or my own mix of the 2 Zilla H70 (using 121) and M25 (using the FRED SM57) cabs.

EDIT - They're also Ultra-Res!

peteri

Not sure if people have seen this? But about halfway through the video he walks you through the patch - setup in a way I wouldn't usually do, but really like it:

https://forum.fractalaudio.com/threads/ax8-high-gain-scenes-demo-q9.132565/

Had some time last night, and came up with a 'do it all patch' I'm really happy with.

'Clean' sound (which is only clean with the guitar volume down is a Tweed Deluxe into a factory Twin Mix IR

Dirty is the 1959SLP, which I really like, that's going into one of the factory 4x12 mixes (the green mix).

I then have a Dimension 1 for chorus set as in the thread above.

Phaser before the amp, giving Phase 90 and Univibe

Cry baby wah

Trem after the amp

Drive before the amp - FET Boost or quite a hot TS808

Drive before the amp (not footswitchable) Esoteric Boost

GEQ before the amp for a solo boost

Two delays after the amp, one is taking the place of reverb - barely audible, the other is more obvious, these are in parallel, the 'reverb' delay has a gate to reduce the impact of the tails a tiny bit.

Using the delay instead of reverb means I can run the cabs ultra-res, which I did notice on this patch (haven't in the past)

This gives me:

Scene 1 - 'Clean', just deluxe and 'reverb'

Scene 2 - Same, but with DMM delay and trem - bit soupy

Both of these on one footswitch S1/S2

Scene 3 - AC/DC, 1959SLP + Cab + 'reverb'

Scene 4 - Rock - 1959SLP + Esoteric Boost + DMM Delay

Scene 5 - As above, but with a GEQ before the amp boosting mids and gain a tiny bit

So that's the bottom footswitches used.

Top row reads:

Phaser, Chorus, Drive, Delay - and I switch in if I like, Delay Y is a tape delay with tap tempo if I like it, Chorus Y is a CE2.

Again - this is running comfortably within CPU (low/mid 80's), and sounds absolutely great. Really enjoying the Deluxe at the moment, and the Plexi matches it well.

guitarfishbay

Have you considered you might prefer the Redwirez because they’re shorter?

I find the differences are most noticeable in the low end. It might be the tighter more immediate nature of the Redwirez is what you prefer. 

I’m surprised you find the Ownhammer IRs lacking definition, them being well balanced and defined is why I generally like them. I tend to stick to the low numbers for tighter and brighter sounds.

But thing is, one size does not fit all and the big advantage of these digital units is you can tweak it to what you want to hear.

Personally I wouldn’t worry about IR length if you like the sound.

Jonathanthomas83

FarleyUK said:

I have a love / hate relationship with IRs. Brilliant to have tons of options, but it's also a complete time-sink; I swear I spend more time trying to find 'that sound' than I do actually playing

This is me all over. It's ridiculous! I'll checkout the Heavy Hitters, thank you, mate!

guitarfishbay said:

Have you considered you might prefer the Redwirez because they’re shorter?

I find the differences are most noticeable in the low end. It might be the tighter more immediate nature of the Redwirez is what you prefer. 

I’m surprised you find the Ownhammer IRs lacking definition, them being well balanced and defined is why I generally like them. I tend to stick to the low numbers for tighter and brighter sounds.

But thing is, one size does not fit all and the big advantage of these digital units is you can tweak it to what you want to hear.

Personally I wouldn’t worry about IR length if you like the sound.

I think you're on to something there, could be that the old IRs are more suited to my needs. And yes totally, I've noticed the  low end is very different in the new OH IRs that I've tried.

I guess 'definition' is the wrong word then, maybe the RW IRs are just brighter and less midrange-y compared to the OH IRs I've tried. Maybe I just need to keep trying them. They sound darker, to my ears, even at the brightest setting. Either that or I'm doing things wrong. I'll try a single mic in isolation rather than using a mix and maybe I'll get closer to what I'm after.

I feel like I'm learning a lot through this process though, mic placement and what speakers I like and dislike. The sound I'm aiming for etc. My biggest worry is that I lack the experience to know if it's a sound I like or a sound that others will like too and a sound that will slot into the mix nicely.

You may be right in saying that maybe I should stick with RW if I like the sound. I must have come back to them for a reason and like @FarleyUK alludes to, it's going to start to feel like I'm chasing my tail if I spend too much longer on it.

FarleyUK

What I've done with the HHC2 collection is to JUST use the mixes, so I don't spend hours playing around with each separate mic placement etc.

Might be worth a go?

guitarfishbay

To be honest if you want cut you're best off just using a single mic.  Adding in a second mic will generally fill things out, which usually sounds great but if you want maximum cut and definition you'll probably get on better with a single mic IR.  

peteri

I'm gravitating towards the mixes in the OH series too, although in my new 'bestest rig' ever - using the mixes from the factory works really well too, it was a good tip to use the higher numbers - there's definitely something in that.

Biggest benefit I've found, is don't play too much with IRs. Get one early on when you're writing a patch and stick with it. Switching part way through and you might as well start again.

Maybe at the end if there's a resonance or something you don't like - but you can disappear up somewhere

guitarfishbay

My method is pretty much to start with fairly typical settings for the amp in question (some amps it might be pretty much flat EQ, some such as Mesa Marks need a different approach) and then flick through a bunch of IRs until one sounds pretty close to what I'm going for.  That's when I'll go back and mess with the amp EQ.  My goal is to get as much of the heavy lifting done by the IR as possible, then leave it alone and do the rest with the amp block/drives etc

FarleyUK

Anyone able to get a Slash 'Use Your Illusion / Spaghetti Incident' era tone...? I've been trying but it's bloody elusive!

peteri

Ooh that's a nice challenge, annoying I'm away from this evening for the weekend!

Given the Jubilee/AFD models - it sounds easy, but suspect the IR is key

firepaulmusic

Spent a while tonight making my 'do it all patch'. Fender Twin for clean and Silver Jubilee for dirty. A different cab for each and programmed to change with Scene 1/2. Ts808 and Zen Drive X/Y. Phase 90, chorus and auto wah. Two delays X/Y and volume block at the end, job done.

Jonathanthomas83

Settled on Celestion IRs, for now. Seem to have gone simple and settled on an SM57 in most cases, just fuller sounding when using a single mic instead of mixing.

Incidentally, saw this video and decided to peak a PEQ block at 400hz and 2k based on his advice, must say, being a newbie to EQ stuff and not understanding things really, I think it’s sweetened things up and really helps it cut through https://youtu.be/YhuryXGMt1o

Any other tips you guys like to use?

FarleyUK

peteri said:

Ooh that's a nice challenge, annoying I'm away from this evening for the weekend!

Given the Jubilee/AFD models - it sounds easy, but suspect the IR is key

I'll be b*ggered if I can get a sound like it.....!!

guitarfishbay

Jonathanthomas83 said:

Settled on Celestion IRs, for now. Seem to have gone simple and settled on an SM57 in most cases, just fuller sounding when using a single mic instead of mixing.

Incidentally, saw this video and decided to peak a PEQ block at 400hz and 2k based on his advice, must say, being a newbie to EQ stuff and not understanding things really, I think it’s sweetened things up and really helps it cut through https://youtu.be/YhuryXGMt1o

Any other tips you guys like to use?

The Celestion IRs are good, glad you found something that is working for you.

Tips is a bit of a broad subject.

The thing with EQing is you can't really give specific tips for cuts and boosts as it always depends on the source sound, and intended goal.

Personally I almost always approach post EQ with a subtractive first mindset - what are the things I don't like about this sound, and if I reduce those things does it improve the sound.  Or if you have two competing instruments at the same frequency, can I get it to sit better by reducing that frequency on the instrument I want to be less dominant.

It takes a while to train your ear to hear what you should be doing with EQ, I'm not sure of where to point you in terms of YouTube channels to teach basics because I didn't learn it that way myself (I just bugged people who were better than me to show me stuff after I'd been unsuccessfully noodling for years).

peteri

Recommended preset package - AustinBuddy Naked Amps pack. 

I was cynical but wanted to treat myself and wow!

uses all factory IRs and really gives some models a boost. Now have a lovely preset with a Clean Dumble and Marshall Jubilee - both amps I’ve never dialled in before.