Stratocaster vintage bridge - floating trem height

RandallFlagg

If you have a Strat with a vintage 6 screw bridge and you float your trem, how high off the body do you float it?

richardhomer

The rear edge should be about 3mm off the body.

ICBM

About 2mm at the back edge - enough to give a semi-tone pull up on the top E string.

CasperCaster

I float it slightly higher, such that I can get a semitone on the B and simultaneously a tone on the G. 

RandallFlagg

Fender spec is 1/8th inch but on a vintage trem it looks and feels high

ICBM

It depends on the string gauge too - the heavier the strings, the less height you need to gain the same pitch rise. I use 11s.

RandallFlagg

ICBM said:

It depends on the string gauge too - the heavier the strings, the less height you need to gain the same pitch rise. I use 11s.

I didn't realise that. I use .010s. I like the semi-tone on the high E and whole tone on the B. I have just set my Strat to floating trem after having it decked for ages. I love to be able to pull up into notes my fretting a semi tone lower and pull up into pitch. Like James Calvin Wilsey on "Wicked Game". 

guitars4you

the official answer is based on what suits you - Fender tend to set new C/Shop replicas with more height than I do - I tend to hit a middle ground of 1-2 mm - Clapton would go for zero and many like 5 springs and zero to maximise the guitars vibrant qualities - 1-2 mm should be a happy ground for many to allow a vibrato that works in many situations - I believe Jeff Beck utlises a higher setting for his technique

If I go for the 1-2 mm option, I always adjust the height of the 4 central mounting screws, so that the trem effectively pivot son the 2 outside screws, which I believe adds to the guitars tuning stability

ICBM

guitars4you said:

If I go for the 1-2 mm option, I always adjust the height of the 4 central mounting screws, so that the trem effectively pivot son the 2 outside screws, which I believe adds to the guitars tuning stability

It pivots on all six screws regardless of the height setting. The pivot point is on the side of the screw shaft, not the underside of the head.

guitars4you

ICBM said:

guitars4you said:

If I go for the 1-2 mm option, I always adjust the height of the 4 central mounting screws, so that the trem effectively pivot son the 2 outside screws, which I believe adds to the guitars tuning stability

It pivots on all six screws regardless of the height setting. The pivot point is on the side of the screw shaft, not the underside of the head.

many prefer this option now - is it something you don't buy into

richardhomer

The way I set the screws is to (without strings or springs installed) lie the guitar on a flat surface and tighten each one, until it just lifts the bridge plate off the body. I then back it off just enough for it to lie flat again.

I then install the springs, string up and set the spring tension to give the desired height off the body.

I’ve never raised the four middle screws - the friction in the system is no lower with them raised.

ICBM

guitars4you said:

many prefer this option now - is it something you don't buy into

Yes. It's due to a misunderstanding of the way the bridge pivots.

It makes absolutely no difference to the friction or the return to pitch as long as all six screws are set exactly correctly as richardhomer describes.

The reason for raising the middle four started with laziness in my opinion - because it's slightly less work to do it that way than to set all six just right. Likewise the 'fan' arrangement for the springs which is also not an improvement, does not aid tuning stability (if anything it might make it slightly worse) and probably arose because because it's more difficult to hook the springs onto the outer claws.

antifash

This was on FB today : https://www.premierguitar.com/articles/21545-diy-how-to-float-a-strat-trem

richardhomer

antifash said:

This was on FB today : https://www.premierguitar.com/articles/21545-diy-how-to-float-a-strat-trem

There are number of things in that I don’t agree with - particularly the idea that you should raise the pivot screws, rather than releasing tension on the spring claw to create ‘float’. That is just plain wrong and demonstrates a lack of understanding the mechanics involved....

RandallFlagg

I use the 'screw down until just starts to lieft the back of the bridge then slacken off and set all 6 screws the same height' method. My CS Strat has a vintage bridge and holds tune perfectly well even with full on trem movement.

timmysoft

I’m a user of the 2 outside screws douingall the work like @guitars4you .People often forget that when the Trem pivots the top of the Trem touches the underside of the head of the screw, so although the pivot is the side of the screw, resistance is added by  plate touching the screw head.

i also fan my springs, it feels better to me. 

ICBM

timmysoft said:

People often forget that when the Trem pivots the top of the Trem touches the underside of the head of the screw, so although the pivot is the side of the screw, resistance is added by  plate touching the screw head.

No it isn’t. As soon as the bridge moves back away from the steepest angle it can get to it will no longer be in contact with the heads.

The bridge is in contact with the shafts of all six screws all the time regardless of where the heads are, so the friction does not change.

bbill335

ICBM said:
 Likewise the 'fan' arrangement for the springs which is also not an improvement, does not aid tuning stability (if anything it might make it slightly worse) and probably arose because because it's more difficult to hook the springs onto the outer claws.

I 100% agree with you and yet... my trem feels better with the 3 springs set at angles than when they were parallel. I *think* it's because the tension on the outer two screws is increased slightly when they are at angles (because they're stretched further) but not as much tension as a whole extra spring.

ICBM

bbill335 said:

I 100% agree with you and yet... my trem feels better with the 3 springs set at angles than when they were parallel. I *think* it's because the tension on the outer two screws is increased slightly when they are at angles (because they're stretched further) but not as much tension as a whole extra spring.

Which you can achieve simply by tightening the claw very slightly with the springs straight. All the spring tensions are simply summed because the block and the claw are rigid. There will be a natural variance in the tension of the individual springs anyway due to manufacturing tolerances.

bbill335

ICBM said:

bbill335 said:

I 100% agree with you and yet... my trem feels better with the 3 springs set at angles than when they were parallel. I *think* it's because the tension on the outer two screws is increased slightly when they are at angles (because they're stretched further) but not as much tension as a whole extra spring.

Which you can achieve simply by tightening the claw very slightly with the springs straight. All the spring tensions are simply summed because the block and the claw are rigid. There will be a natural variance in the tension of the individual springs anyway due to manufacturing tolerances.

You're probably right but, it's basically fine right now, so I am loath to mess with it until next string change.

ICBM

bbill335 said:

You're probably right but, it's basically fine right now, so I am loath to mess with it until next string change.

No need to mess with it at all if it feels fine and returns to pitch correctly .

You can actually test it very simply without restringing though - just make sure the guitar is tuned perfectly, then put the springs straight, and then adjust the claw screws so the guitar is back in tune without touching the tuners.